Moondoc is definitely one of my favorite altoists in the free jazz realm. He has such a distinct sound-- soulful and, yes, human. There's a drunken stumble to his playing that I could see turning some off, but that reveling in the sour notes pulses with vitality. I think while he may be Ornette influenced, he has transcended that influence. Certainly he's one of the few free jazz musicians I would still like to see.

I think the last I heard from him was on that Active Ingredients disc. I hope he gets some more material out as well.

Well typed, Tanner, I’m with you 100 percent. Moondoc is a kindred spirit to Frank Lowe in that he leaves the mistakes in & even occasionally makes them more interesting than the “on the money” moments. I was spinning WE DON’T on Eremite the other day & was moved to take 2.5 trips through for that reason alone.

is it just me or is this a not-so-great album?

i gave this a few chances in the '90s and it seemed like lukewarm free-neo-con (i.e. that weird '80s period where all the second string free guys tried to play changes, but didn't do it well) album with some of the most hideously out of tune alto and guitar i've ever heard? somebody back me up on this. i love bern nix, but somebody forgot to tune on this one if my memory serves me correctly . . .

ww

The only Moodoc album I have really loved is the first duo with William Parker. That one is just great.

I sold this one years ago. I am with Weasel on memories of horrid intonation problems, and a wanky Nix. Moondoc does have a warts-and-all approach to his unedited, apparently first take soloing-no contention with that approach in principle, except his intonation was frequently so off I wondered if I was hearing mid-80's-Shepp-like embochure/dental issues.
I think he acquits himself very nicely on Captain Og The Deep.
Hail to Al, on his return to dry land and the random post.

Erratum:
Moondoc enthusiasts will know this, but the Denis Charles release I referenced is not Captain Og, The Deep, (which I now prefer), but Captain Of The Deep.

It’s not just you, weasel, but I’m obviously in the other camp. The album is far from perfect, but I get the feeling that the tuning/intonation choices are for the most part purposeful (save soprano). And it’s fun to hear Jemeel wrestle & try to reconcile himself with more structured forms.

Jesse, though blessed w/ a far ranging set of ears, you’re sometimes an intonation stickler. I recall you voicing similar reservations about recent Byard Lancaster. Then as now I'd offer this rejoinder: on occasion, “out of tune” is intentional, not erroneous. Just check in w/ Cedell Davis for a textbook example of such circumstances.

I'm with Damon on New World Pygmies, though there’s plenty of other great Moondoc out there to be heard.

Not sure about *intonation stickler*; I love Loren Connors, to name one improviser who will attack a note a bit sharp or flat. And, make it two,Ornette. Moondoc's intentions aren't what I respond to, Derek. That he is intentionally out of tune doesn't matter on an immediate, visceral level. Do you hear intentions?
Byard is a player I took some pleasure in long ago. The two dates you are referencing have some really nerny noodling on them, his off-intonation is only part of my problem with those releases.
As the Jesuits have it, there is no arguing matters of taste.

Jackie McLean would drive such a stickler to madness.

This thread brought on an urge to revisit an old LP: Muntu New York Live. Good stuff, and (for me) preferable to his larger ensemble stuff of recent years (see: http://www.bagatellen.com/archives/reviews/000072.html). You get the sense listen to New York Live that the material was fresh, and an associated enthusiasm was reinforcing. I just don't get that sense in Moondoc's recent work, with the exception of "Revolt of the Negro Lawn Jockeys", which is inventive.

Hi, Jesse.

I figured that might raise a hackle or few w/o a punctuating wink. ;) I hear “intentions” when they’re stated to me by the person to whom they belong. I had a conversation w/ Jemeel years back where I asked him specifically about his intonation and sometimes warbly/wobbly delivery. Paraphrasing, he replied that it was part of his playing personality & a conscious choice, not a reflection of technical deficiency. I haven’t had the opportunity to speak w/ Byard, but my inclination is to ascribe the same qualifiers to some of his supposed intonation imbroglios. Or to put it another way, you say “po-ta-toe”, I say “po-tah-toe”.

Extra points for “nerny noodling”, wish I’d coined that!

I dig that Muntu LP too (the origin of Cadence’s cow logo?), though I’ve since transferred it to CDR (RIP Sanyo turntable). The Jus Grew Orchestra has garnered its share of brow crinkling/hand wringing for ensemble pile-ups and general messiness. I think some of that criticism is deserved, but even so, enthusiasm & engagement on the part of the leader is usually in evidence.

Revolt of the Negro Lawn Jockeys, along w/ the aforementioned New World Pygmies are the crown jewels of the Eremite catalog, IMO. The former has a perfect “album” feel to it and features some killer Khan Jamal. Love the title too.

i like the old muntu records okay. never personally understood why people are so crazy over moondoc though. i am a big fan of a lot of weird guys from his "ilk" though - lancaster, luther thomas, charles brackeen, frank lowe, yadda yadda . . .

how about ken simon??? nobody ever talks about that guy. what a killer saxophonist. i have to dig him up.

ww

Nice to see a conversation about this. I think "Revolt..."is probably my favorite Moondoc album... Khan Jamal was a perfect choice for that record, highlighting the squirming tonalities that Moondoc excels at. Tri-p-Let on Eremite is good as well. I played "Ruby's Riches" for Malachi Ritcher on my local radio station when he died. Seemed fitting.

I completely understand Weasel's problem with Moondoc's intonation. It took me a while to get over the "out of tune" stuff... the New World Pygmies Vol. 2 has some particularly rough shit going on. But I'm with Derek that it's part of the charm; ultimately his idiosyncratic choices are what draws me to his music. His tonality and intonation at it's best strikes me with such a pathos... He seems more about emulating the human voice -- the cries and screams and wavers, that fragility that come out at ones most passionate moments. There's almost an embarrassment I get when hearing some of Moondoc's stuff; it really sounds like he's baring a painful part of himself rather than just screaming out in that monotone fire-and-brimstone mode that so many free jazzers fixate on -- "LOOK AT ME I'M FEELING THIS SHIT HARD!" I digress...

Of course, that isn't to say he's always "on" either. But again, I think that's something I enjoy working through. It's always a surprise with him.

Pardon my mispelling, that should be Ritscher...

I'm with Weasel.

For obvious reasons I also liked the trio with Blackwell and Hopkins, but it doesn't really matter who rounds out a trio with those two.

Jim O'Rourke?

I'm not sure what that means. O'Rourke would rule in front of those two.
I used have doubts (mainly due to not being able to get a handle on what he was up to, I never disliked any of his work) , but after working on the Grizzly Man soundtrack with him I got full demonstration of his stellar musicianship, which very impressive.