These last few albums have been really boring review choices, Derek, what gives? Are you depressed or something?

Boring to you, Bland-man.

Haven't heard this one; didn't really get much out of the debut disc, so skipped this one.

On a cheerier note, anyone heard the new Peter Evans on Firehouse 12? Not quite sure what I make of it yet--kind of, uh, confrontational in its virtuosic trashing of (barely recognizable) standards--but it's certainly worth hearing.

Haven't heard that, but his quartet with Moppa Elliott, Jon Irabagon and Kevin Shea, MOPDTK (album's called Shamokin') is.. shamokin'!
I'm all in favour of virtuosic trashing of standards.

Just busy, mr. bland, though the deep freeze that will be descending around these parts in a couple months is a depressing prospect. Sorry this place has been such a ghost ship in terms of fresh content lately.
Please share what you consider to be less “boring” choices & I’ll do my best to comply. Brian’s still away at Montauk, but I bet he’ll be coming up with some zingers upon his return, assuming he isn’t abducted by a rogue gang of beachcombing blue hairs.

I’m with you guys on the merits of those two Evans titles. I haven’t spent enough time w/ the Firehouse set yet, but SHAMOKIN’ is great fun. I love the cribbing from Lee Morgan’s A NIGHT IN TUNISIA in the packaging/design & the rundown of said tune is crazy.

Damn, I guess all the action's gone over to I Hate Music's thread on the Han Bennink Invisible Jukebox. You really got 'em goin', Dan!

I haven't seen the issue yet, as we tend to get The Wire very late way down South here (hits the newsstands toward the end of the month in question), but mighty curious to see the Global Ear on my town of course...(it's about damn time!)

The only up is that I'm not wasting as much work time gazing at this site, but I'm missing the lively exchange... How do we spark this sucker up?

hey i dont know why people dont want to talk about this disc - peter evans is a snooze blanket in comparison (just record some pissing static and you're there)

this record's really got the chops though. must be too jazzy for yall. i cant wait till brian comes back with some fresh drone zingers!

Good question, Rob. I’m hoping to get some new stuff up towards the end of the week that may or may not serve as dry tinder.

For us non-Wire readers, Dan, what were your final decisions on the stack of 45s for Han?

And Glenn, I dig parts of this disc plenty. I just think a couple of the tracks overstay their welcome a bit. What’s your point(s) of reference for that quip about Evans? I’m guessing it’s his Psi disc? Which I think is great, by the way. SHAMOKIN’ has a helluva lot more goin’ on than simple urinated static esp. if you’re one who gets weak in the knees over chops. Carnival Skin too, while you’re at it.

glenn a. said: "peter evans is a snooze blanket in comparison (just record some pissing static and you're there)"

either you're being the devil's advocate (hardy har har) and trying to start something here or you're just totally ignorant. peter evans is a MONSTER who can and does play everything. he blows just about any other living trumpeter off the earth from what i can tell. i watched the motherfucker play a blistering set of machine gun changes at light speed, that i assure you would utterly annihilate anything on this disc (sound unheard).

if you're judging his complete output on a solo reord you regard a static "snooze", i'm letting you know that, uh, that's not the only thing he does. duh. that's like listening to miles davis' "tutu" and saying, "he's like totally new age . . . forget about that miles davis character."

actually know what you're talking about when you're being a dick - it'll get you much farther.

Evans is a breath of fresh air, & I can't fathom why anyone would dismiss him so flippantly. Haven't heard Shamokin' but the solo disc, Carnival Skin & the new quartet disc are all excellent.

I guess (having touched on one of the new Firehouse 12 releases) I should now ask what folks made of the Tyshawn Sorey that was released at the same time. It's definitely NOT what you'd expect from the guy who was whipping up a storm on the drums on Blood Sutra and Configuration. The incredibly long Morton Feldmanesque track on CD1 didn't do a lot for me, though.....

Hey david thompson - it's hilarious that you chastise me for dismissing evans because of his solo record when i havent heard other items in his catalogue, and then you tell me that everything he has done (or ever will do) is better than the disc actually under discussion, which yu admit you haven't heard.

ya - i think evans' solo disc is not interesting, and i don't have time to explore stuff i'm not interested in. the reason i dissed him is because appluase to him is irrelevant to this hunter gatherer disc.

nate - evans is easy to dismiss - just listen to his psi disc. if you love it, you need to sharpen your julienne skills. as for me, i've always been one for the rough chop.

let me guess, david - evans let you give him a blowjob under his music stand once and you're eternally grateful for the taste of someone else's cock in your mouth (finally! not dad's!)

by the way - i consider it to be dickheadhat behavior to run a review of a disc, then nonchalantly prance along as one commenter (nate in this case) ruins any hope for discussing the disc under review because he hasn't heard it and would like to talk about something else.

but thta's the structure of bagatellen and it sucks gopher tits that the music and musicians have to be subjected to such shallow responses and listenings. you guys should start an email group.

Glenn, not sure how I escaped being a direct target of your derision above. Just lucky, I guess, though maybe that “nonchalantly prancing” missive was a missile meant for me? I’m also not clear how Nate’s comment “ruined” future discussion on this disc. The review is still up & the comments function still open, so anyone (including you) is free to sound off.

You may not like my take on the disc, but I spent significant time listening to & forming my thoughts about it. Fortunately, there’s a perfect example of a “shallow” response provided from your very own keyboard- your summary assertion “this record’s really got the chops”. Not exactly deep or insightful commentary there. Seriously, man, you’re spitting into the wind. Here’s a hanky to wipe the self-inflicted phlegm from your brow.

And more to the point, if you don’t have time to “explore” stuff you’re not interested in what the hell are you doing wasting your time here? Turn off the computer, plug in the ear goggles, and pontificate on Rempis & co. by your lonesome.

hey glenn - or dave rempis - or whoever you are . . . go away. if you don't like it here (which you're saying you don't), don't come here. it's that easy, pal.

furthermore, i don't even need to hear the rempis disc to know that peter evans could blow it off the stage because peter evans is a monster on his instrument. nobody on the disc is question is a monster on their instrument. evans can do anything those other guys can do better - guaranteed - and is doing it. peter evans, although you didn't care for his solo disc, is a profound musician. nobody in the lineup for this other disc is profound. sorry, but it's a scientific fact, dildo boy.

no, peter evans did not fellate me to get this admission. what he did was fucking blow my mind in live performance, which is a lot more than dave rempis ever did for me. dave rempis is fine and dandy. this discussion is more about how you are a twat.

The sad part is the reason for all the anonymous posts is surely to do with the extremely over-sensitive Chicago scene's total inability to take any form of criticism.
Peter Evans is an original voice. End of story.
While the post-Vandermark Chicago scene has many fine players, I have yet to hear a single original sound or idea.
I doubt a single one of them could catch the ear of Evan Parker and have him agree to a solo release on his label.

I hate to have to be the voice of reason, but maybe everybody needs to simmer down a little here. I can understand why someone who prefers their music to have jazz elements would dislike or hate Peter Evans' solo record. Fine. Unfortanately, Peter Evans might have been a really bad choice of an example for Glenn to rag on because Evans is a very fine jazz player - it just isn't his concern on the solo disc in question. I've seen him play too and I was very, very impressed by his skill and musicality. Honestly, I've never seen anyone play the trumpet like that. It was amazing. I'm sure Dave Rempis' release is very fine, but this isn't a contest between musicians. Comparing Dave Rempis' release and Peter Evans' solo release is beyond apples and oranges: it's more like telephones and elephants. there's no relation.

Weasel Walter

Well said, Weasel. Why is it that some folks feel entitled to show up & shit on each other on these premises? That kind of behavior committed in person at your local watering hole is a sure-fire way to get eighty-sixed. Break a few bottles and take it out in the alley behind Bags why don’t you?

Dave Rempis AND Peter Evans are both impressive musicians. It’s not a case of either-or in my estimation. This particular set has some great spots and some not-so-great ones. No slights meant toward señors Rempis, Hatwich, Rosaly or Daisy with that stated opinion & I seriously doubt any of them would bristle at it to begin with. I’ve met two out of the four personally and found them to be thoughtful, modest and more than capable of accepting criticism.

The point of my original posting was to try to counter the initial anonymous sideswipe with a little positive discussion, even of a different disc. Seems harmless enough to me.

I wanted to respond to the passing suggestion above that "Glenn" might be Rempis himself (see David Thompson's above post): this seems to me, from what I know of the man himself, extremely unlikely. -- Rempis is a solid player, but given that I didn't like the quartet's debut album much (seemed awfully sedate given its title) I didn't see the need to listen to 2 CDs more.

My piece on the solo Evans disc, FWIW, is here (scroll down a bit).

Hello everyone.
I don't see any way that Dave would have written such a thing. He is a totally solid guy.
Best
Daniel

What the hell is going on here...?

http://www.inkart.com/pages/industry/elephant_phone.html

Uh, can someone explain that last post (spam??)

Sarah's a semi-regular around here (and an insightful one at that) so it's not spam. Nevertheless, I have to confess that I'm confounded as to its meaning as well.

I'd bet my last ducat that Dave hasn't even read this thread. He's got better things to do, like make new music.

The link in question is a comparison of elephants and telephones.

The link in question is a comparison of elephants and telephones, and is indicative of the futility of said enterprise.

This discussion is way beyond the pale.

fyi Umbrella Music (of which Dave Rempis is a member) presents a Pete Evans solo performance at the upcoming Umbrella fest

http://www.umbrellamusic.org./2007fest.html

The next time somebody gets lost on his way to the Craigslist "Rants and Raves" forum and posts in Bags territory by mistake...how 'bout just ignoring him?

Trolls thrive on negative energy; deny them their poisoned nourishment, & they'll slink off elsewhere in pursuit...

Although, admittedly, troll-bashing can be fun...

Nothing like a few expletives to liven up the thread, is there? Over at IHM that'd have been edited out pronto.. thanks for leaving it in Derek, good to know who we're dealing with.

biorhythms are always a factor in ones perception of everything. it is something not enough people can accept or recognise. until one comes to terms with this phenomenon-one won't get "it." i keep a crowbar and a masonjar of cosmoline on hand at all times and feel it is my responsibility as a person to help all with their uptightness. have bless day.

i know - it's easy to overreact on line. that's why i'm also a professional wrestler. helps keep my thyroid in place.

the whole point of my diatribe is that this review and comments are ostensibly about the hunter gatherer disc. i still feel sorry for anyone who looks up this this band (or any other artist ever covered by bagatellen writers) and gets the embarassment of comments that have nothing to do with the disc they want to read about.

i like to post here reminding people how this site sux because it comes up all too frequently on google, and other listeners doing reasearch deserve to know that alternate opinions exist. In this case, unfortunately, most of the talk is about peter evans.

i also really like getting under the skin of people like david thompson - so easy, and the insidious payoff of painfully colonizing his brainspace is just too delightful to refrain from!

by the way, if anyone cares about this disc: tim daisy really socks it to the tom! it's better than their first release by the way; dare i say it's as big a leap as from evans' "more is more" to "carnival skin"? - Ha!

"other listeners doing reasearch deserve to know that alternate opinions exist."

Dude, reality check time. Believe it or not, you're not the only one who knows how to operate search engines. What's the point of hanging out here if your principle purpose is to point out how much the place "sux"? Why not use your time more productively burning ants w/ a magnifying glass or slamming cats' tails in screen doors?

"i like to post here reminding people how this site sux"
That's really sweet of you. Just don't forget to take your attitude out with the trash out on your way out, Mr Arrogant. I trust you'll end up in the unmarked grave next to Arch Stanton.

wow glenn, you just play me like a puppet. you're so masterful in your psychological command of us simple folk. you fuckin' idiot. go away.

----------------------

dipshit glenn sniffs, "dare i say it's as big a leap as from evans' "more is more" to "carnival skin"?"

there was no "leap" between those recordings douchbag. you're so clueless.

do you realize that it's entirely possible for a musician to operate within more than one modus operandi? oh wait . . . given the musicians you're trumpeting here and their narrow musical ranges, i can see why you'd come to that conclusion. dumbass. peter evans didn't "grow" out of "more is more" into "carnival skin" - they're two completely different threads that he has been working for a long time (amongst others).

furthermore, if you want godamn "jazz" go check this out, fuckhead: http://www.myspace.com/mostlyotherpeopledothekilling

it's peter evans, playing "jazz" and blowing the shit out of it.

in your face, you knob.

As the wise ol' Papa Joe would say: "Let the horse go."

Back to Peter Evans and/or Dave Rempis...

and a world class showcase by the Rempis Percussion project at the Hunter Gatherer venue last friday. kind of made Texas look even more like Pakistan. i'm sorry none of you all were there-i would have liked to bought you a round of black velvets.

Goddamn Stanton, what are you, Tim Daisy's domestic partner? Take it easy on the cheerleading.

I have never taken it easy on "cheerleaders." (except kelly ryan & that wasn't until she bbq'ed her assistant and got picked up in the nail clinic whilst trying to get out of the US) in fact i've got another name for them. both the mail and the female varieties have been a target of mine since the mid 1980's. yes, that explains the frozen gallon ziplock full of urine that smashed through the windshield of his prelude. as for domestic partners...i play for team VT.

Clearly a bad time to get involved...

I'm pretty new to Bags (and only slightly less so to the music it generally covers). However, I live in Chicago and have caught a number of gigs by the Umbrella folks (assisted by the extremely low cover charge). I haven't heard this disc yet, but I was wondering if anyone had any opinions on Frank Rosaly in particular. I know you can't hear much of him in particular (as the drums are inexplicably not isolated in l/r channels?). But live, and in almost any context (particularly in a duo w/ Fred Lonberg-Holm), I find Rosaly one of the most exciting drummers I've ever seen. He's a very different player from Daisy, but I'm not quite sure how to categorize him. I want to say he has a sort of narrative style (if one can call a series of decisions made and not made a narrative). There's a tightrope-walk element to his playing -- I might be crazy but I find myself holding my breath half the time I watch him.

That's a bit of a fan-rant, but I am genuinely curious to hear what (considered) opinions others (more well-versed than I) might have.

No time like the present, Brent. Don’t let the Bugsy Malone-style firefights that break out here periodically disuade you.

Re: Rosaly. I like him. I saw him years ago in Chicago, but don’t remember the gig all that well. Nearly all of my exposure to his playing comes from discs by Rempis & Keefe Jackson. Stylistically he reminds me more of Euro improv (less jazz grounded) and has obviously listened to a lot of ‘new music’ composers (Cage, Feldman) in developing his sense of space & timing. His duo on Utech w/ Daisy is a better place to get a gauge on their differences that the Rempis group. To my ears, Daisy relies to a greater degree on defined beats and direct propulsion, but not as much as he used to. Rosaly purportedly has a 3cd solo set in the near offing so that should be something worth hearing.

Rosaly is a lot of fun to listen to live - indeed, brent. he does seem to be taking the time to craft a movement of the music over time when he improvises, rather than accentuate and deacentuate phrases made by the other members. it's a weird quality in a drummer actually. i've even seen folks request a bib before hearing him play - they know they'll probably spill some of themselves while he goes at it.

I have heard good things about Rosaly, but my old friend Jerome Bryeron is my favorite Chicago percussionist.

We had a nice quartet for a few gigs with the late Alec Ramsdell on piano and Rempis himself, just playing the shit out of the alto.

bryerton literally made me cringe the first time i saw him - around 2000/ 2001 or so. it was like he took the techniques of lovens and lytton, wholesale, and just dropped them onto his playing. he had the techniques, ripped straight from the old guys, and zero of the timing or the purposeness behind using the techniques. it was really bizarre for me to see, but i felt horrible for the people in the audience who didn't know the people whose techniques he was biting without adding to, or even seeming to understand.

i almost don't even blame him - it seemed like youth, pure youth. biting off more than can chew. and hey - why not mimic some of the greatest living percussionists? but as i've seen him a couple times more over the years, he fills me with the heebee jeebees, like he doesn't even recognize what a rip-off he is.

Well, there is some of that, most other drummers of my generation just pretend those guys don't even exist and rehash Elvin and Sunny Murray.
He has a lot of his own stuff especially now, but those are his obvious starting points.
Having an understanding of what those guys do is pretty rare even still, I think he builds on that, which is better than rehashing Tony Williams.

I took a lot from Kowald and Guy and many other bass players, there is hardly a muscian alive that you can't trace thier sources.

Wow! I heard about this thread today and... heeelarious! You guys should start a band or something.
Sorry Damon killed the conversation.