Perhaps it is indeed all about expectation. In the last couple of years I've bought quite a few CD's of lower-case eai which have disappointed me, or at least left me wishing that something more was going on in the music. I've lately decided that I've got enough drone-based CD's to last the rest of my lifetime, and don't need any more.

So when I read Brian's review (having already ordered but not yet received The Large Glass), I thought "oh no, I've made another mistake". But then - having had my expectations lowered - I was pleasantly surprised when I listened to the CD for the first time. The first track especially has enough grit and roughness to mix with the beautiful sustained tones you expect from Graham Halliwell, and it's lovely.

The second track ("in mezzo, nel mezzo") is too pretty for my taste, and if the whole CD were like this I'd completely agree with Brian's reservations. But perhaps I would have felt that way about the whole disc if I hadn't already read his review.... So thanks, Brian, for lowering expectations and preparing the ground for a very pleasant surprise.

Just a quick word about the presentation: the cover is beautifully designed and looks great. But WHY do Absinth, Absurd, Rossbin and now Cathnor insist on producing CD covers in out-sizes that don't fit my (and presumably most other people's) CD shelves? It's very annoying.

Simon - You forgot to mention Spekk and Crouton in that list.

Answer to your question is either redesign your shelves and have a few of these specifically reserved for these odd-sized releases or dump half of your collection into the basement as I've recently done. Either way you loose, as alphabetical segregation will always be out of whack.

Important Records do it too, as well as those Free America CD reissues....never mind I guess

Heh. Happy to be of service, Simon!

I do wish it was possible to "listen blind" to new releases. Closest I come to this is turning on the car radio mid-piece, enjoying or not enjoying the music then being, often, surprised to find out who it is.

Hi folks, first thing to remember is that whilst Brian is a lovely guy and a great writer he occasionally has these dire lapses in taste and doesn't recognise a good record when he hears one.... (just kidding! :)

As for the packaging, well first of all thanks for the compliment on the design Simon, I'll pass the comment on to Olaf my designer, (s)he will be very pleased.

As for the outsize... well I specifically chose packaging that big for several reasons. Firstly I don't want the releases to fit neatly onto CD shelves! There's nothing worse than being filed away alphabetically never to be looked at again... I quite like the idea of being wilfully awkward so you have to think hard about how to file them! :)

But above all, the larger size is to do the image/design justice. I am no fan of vinyl and its inferior sound quality (yeah yeah I know, dont start that argument again!!) but one thing I sorely miss is the nice big 12" square canvas that LP sleeves provided. The larger packaging size, and also the escape from the restrictions of a square format just give a little more scope for the design, which for me at least is an important aspect of Cathnor.

Anyway thanks for buying, and don't listen to Brian in the future! (unless he says somethign nice about a Cathnor ofcourse! :)

I'm a little surprised by Brian's response to this CD as I like it very much and consider it a splendid achievement. It's a subtle, sophisticated work that won't necessarily grab you immediately. Stick with it, it's worth the effort.

I'm tired of this Brian Merely character, bring back Brian Morely!

RP: "Olaf my designer, (s)he will be very pleased."
Umm, you mean you don't know what sex s/he is? Transexual EAI, that sounds cool. Maybe Schnee could cover "Sweet Transvestite" from Rocky Horror PS.. And instead of ripping off Berlin, Mattin'll do Transformer.. "Hey sugar, take a walk on the Whitehouse side, do, da do, da do, do, da do do, da do, da do, do da do dooo...
The whole thang remixed by Terre Thaemlitz (whatever happened to him / her?)
BM: "I'm a little surprised by Brian's response to this CD as I like it very much and consider it a splendid achievement."
Me too. How many listens have you given it, Brian (O)? I'm at three so far but that's not enough to review it.
DT: "I'm tired of this Brian Merely character, bring back Brian Morely!"
Bring back Robert Morley!

I've listened to The large Glass six or seven times (in fact, I'm listening to it again right now), and was keen to review it for The Wire, but someone (you, Dan?) got in there before me: grrrr.

As for Brian Morely, there's less of him than there used to be but that's probably a good thing.

Dan its not a question of transexuality, more just that we don't really know much about Olaf. (s)he lives in the Siberian mountains and communicates by carrier pigeon, which tends to slow the production of Cathnor releases a little, but the results are good.

Has the Mimeo pigeon arrived already. Or did it get shot above Poland?
:-)

Cor

Sorry about that Brian (M) - I pitched a whole bag full of discs for review but didn't expect to get that one: assumed you'd bagsed it long ago. But I'll bet I like the disc as much as you do! Great stuff - give it another half dozen spins Brian (O)..

Oh, Jesus, leave Olewnik alone. He says a disc is great, everybody who cares agrees and heaps laurels on him and the recording. He pans one disc (his first?) and 40 people tell him he's full of shit.

As I've repeated (endlessly), unfavorable reviews are simply not allowed in this sort of close-knit forum. Why not just have a computer program that spews out "Superb" in maybe four or five different fashions and forget the whole appraisal business.

Er, thanks walto. Jeez, it wasn't even a real pan. Just thought it was so-so. I can't help it if Warburton and Marley have succumbed to the power of the Cathnor publicity deluge! ;-)

Dan, I believe I gave it six listens, fwiw.

Just once I'd to see someone write: "You really liked that?! Maybe you need to listen to it a few more times. It's true worthlessness only emerges after about a dozen listens."

...except I'd prefer to read it with "Its" spelled correctly.

Maybe someday, Walt. I admire your dogged diligence in lobbying for more negative reviews, but it may end up that the quickest path to that condition lies in uncapping your own pen (preferably a red Sharpie) & putting it to work.

I have two-fer going up tonight that might be more to your liking (though I’m betting the music covered will not). It’s more tepid than outright negative, but hey, baby steps, right?

"Oh, Jesus, leave Olewnik alone. He says a disc is great, everybody who cares agrees and heaps laurels on him and the recording. He pans one disc (his first?) and 40 people tell him he's full of shit."

Shit? No way. Rumour has it he's filled to the brim with vanilla cream and golden honey and has a delicious sugar-frosted coating. He has what's known as calorific heft, which is why his critical judgements carry so much weight.

"I admire your dogged diligence in lobbying for more negative reviews, but it may end up that the quickest path to that condition lies in uncapping your own pen (preferably a red Sharpie) & putting it to work."

I'm not lobbying for more negative reviews. I'm trying to explain why we're not too likely to see many of them this site. I'm have no interest at all in reviewing CDs anymore, but if I were, I wouldn't do it at a place where if I said something negative the performers, their labels, their friends, and their fans were quite likely to respond that I've obviously missed the whole point of the thing. I suppose there may be folks who are completely immune to those sorts of positive and negative reinforcers, but I'm not.

Tell me Derek, did you ever get slammed for a rave? (Of course, maybe Phil has--he gets pounded for pretty much anything he writes--an artifact, no doubt, of some past pan for which atonement can never be achieved.)

I have a feeling of déjà-lu here.. didn't we discuss this before?
Six listens is pretty decent, OK - just surprised that you didn't warm to it more then!
Actually, has anyone got an example of a disc that got seriously worse with each progressive listen? As in "got worse" rather than "didn't yield anything more"? Not over a long period of time - everybody goes off particular bands / artists after a while (I have a hard time with a lot of the New Wave stuff I used to like) - but over the space of about a week..

>(Of course, maybe Phil has--he gets pounded for pretty much anything he writes--an artifact, no doubt, of some past pan for which atonement can never be achieved.)

As I recall (though I could be wrong - I'm frequently a poor judge of what's positive and what's negative, as Weasel Walter's recent flusteration over my write-up of his Tonic gig will prove to anyone bored enough to care), my Wire review of Too Beautiful To Burn, the one that turned Jon Abbey permanently against me, was positive - it was just the wrong kind of positive review, because I didn't listen to the disc six times before writing it, and thus chose to simply report on the sounds I'd heard rather than exhaustively discourse on the meaning of every little scrape and ping.

Derek- I tried to post from a smartphone whilst parked up in the wastes of the West Midlands, UK earlier and the post got stored awaiting your approval...! Can you delete it when you see it please as it went something like:

Walto, really noone was particularly berating Brian. I may have had a couple of cheeky jabs but only in jest, and Brian knows they were not serious.

I have every respect for Brian as a listener and critic and although obviously we don't agree on this one he remains firmly in level first place on my list of people called Brian to send review copies to :)

FWIW Brian was also only lukewarm about one of my first two releases as well, so as far as I personally am concerned I feel there is no problem with Brian writing an honest, critical review, publicity deluge or no publicity deluge!! From my perspective I'm not sure what the fuss is about.

However there is obviously a comments facility at Bags and its perfectly reasonable for people to post to say they like a CD following a less than rave review. I don't think anyone was particularly having a go at Brian.

The Large Glass has seemed to split people to be honest. I know of several people whose opinion I respect that have made clear its not fully their cup of tea, and thats great, at least I'm controversial!

As for expectations regarding how a CD might sound I can't wait to read what people will make of my next CD release, the MIMEO project Cor alludes to above...!

Right now I really must go and write about Radu Malfatti before a certain Mr W starts nagging again ;)

"my Wire review of Too Beautiful To Burn, the one that turned Jon Abbey permanently against me, was positive - it was just the wrong kind of positive review, because I didn't listen to the disc six times before writing it, and thus chose to simply report on the sounds I'd heard rather than exhaustively discourse on the meaning of every little scrape and ping."

actually, since you bring it up, your Erst Wire review (which was of Lidingo, Too Beautiful To Burn I sent you the following year on the condition you'd never review it anywhere) didn't turn me "permanently against you", it woke me up to your laziness and ineptitude as a critic, which I'd never especially noticed before, and which you continue to confirm to me with pretty much everything you write. you admitted to playing the disc only once, and if what you wrote about were really "the sounds you heard", then I'm sticking to my earlier thesis that you're at least somewhat deaf, since they didn't have much connection to what's on that CD.

fwiw I think that Brian is totally dead on in this review. And I've listened to this more then 6 times as well. I actually often begin to like a disc less and less on multiple listens. The first couple of listens are much more superficial, overviews as it were. As you repeat the listens the overall structure becomes pretty familiar and you can pay more (or less) attention to various parts. I always make sure to listen to most albums on headphones as well as the stereo and this can reveal various details - details that can be reward of detracting. The Large Glass actually is an album that I liked more on the first listen then on subsequent listen. The first track is a good example of this as it was on a later listen where I noticed an annoying loop about ten minutes from the end that plays nearly to the end.

I tend to think that albums that seem pretty good at first but that I begin to like less and less over subsequent listens lack depth. That is to say they are all surface, and it can be a very pretty surface, but there isn't enough there to reward multiple listens.

That's it. I'm sticking to raves from now on. See what happens if I don't spurt over something?

walto, I'm afraid my next review will likely be a positive one. Sorry about that. I think there may be a couple quasi-negative ones after that, though. Not quite sure since, as you're well aware, repeated listenings tend to bring to light previously ignored, excellent facets.

Oh, here's a bone for you: I really, really don't like the video portion of the new Tilbury/Looper DVD on Esquilo. *phew* Hard to squeeze that one out. *pant*

Ah, the video portion!

Didn't do the audio justice, no doubt.

I'd like to hear Graham and/or Tomas talk a bit more about this disc, or hear why other people like it specifically. I've heard it three times so far and my opinion is closest to Robert's, I actually thought Brian was being pretty kind above.

Tell me Derek, did you ever get slammed for a rave?

Explanation understood. Respecting your decision to abstain from reviewing, I still disagree with your rationale for not reviewing things here. I post lots of stuff, most of it admittedly positive, but a fraction of it no so. Either way, I don’t fret about the fallout. Given that those Horn-rimmed glasses of yours are keenly focused and highly resilient to crushing blows, I don’t see why you would either. People seem to come out of the woodwork primarily when someone writes something blatantly disrespectful or disparaging, not when someone says they simply don’t like something. In my opinion, the personal attacks have no place here either.

As far as getting slammed for a rave. I’ve never had a musician or label owner do it publicly. Honestly, why would they? Both groups have vested interests in their projects and presumably feel passionately & positively about them in the first place. I have had members of both correspond with me after releasing something to express after-the-fact reservations about it. And there have been numerous instances where readers & fellow reviewers have told me I’m off my rocker for having raved about something. The last album that comes to mind is the Fred Anderson & Hamid Drake duo on Thrill Jockey, but I’m sure there have been lots of others since.

Actually, has anyone got an example of a disc that got seriously worse with each progressive listen?

Good question, Dan. I'm off to go consult my circular file.

I have a bunch of examples, Dan, but I'll email you rather than mention them out loud.

Chicken!

If I may chime in, a disc which I felt got "seriously worse after progressive listens" was last year's "nmperign / Lescalleet" double. I picked it up specifically because many folk on Bags raved about it, and my first reaction on hearing it was that it was a disjointed ragbag of ideas. Over progressive listenings, the lack of internal cohesion in the music became more and more intolerable, and the disc finally found its way into the garbage.

While this example is a film, I think applies contextually:

I watched The Departed a few months ago, and enjoyed the movie quite a lot. The only thing that immediately bugged me was the weakness of the female lead, and one rather stupid, forced twist (amongst many twists) at the end - I won't ruin it for anyone by saying what the twist was.

But then I spent the next day realizing all these other aspectsof the film which are really weak, poorly done, and contrived. After 48 hours, I realized that The Departed is not a good film. Entertaining, but not good, certainly not Best Film or Best Director.

I think this can apply musically - you may initially think 'oh, this guiar sound is nice, overall this sounds okay' then think 'Wait, this is actually really dull on the whole. Only about 2 minutes of this are special!'

Maybe the multiple-listens thing covers allows the reviewer to get beyond that surface impression thing, but I guess for the ordinary consumer, there's plenty of opportunity to pay your money, like your purchase initially, then let reality slowly sink in....

Similarly, in the age when you couldn't listen to sample audio so readily, I recognize that lots of CDs I wouldn't have purchased if I'd previewed them. But since I went out and paid my money, I made a commitment to trying to like them, coz otherwise, they're just going to sit on my shelf! This was also in the days before Ebay or even really the predominance of the used CD store.

I once had a stroppy email from a musician foaming at the mouth over a (positive) review that I had edited for the magazine I work for. His beef was that I hadn't included the URL of his website from which to order his CD, which he had apparently specifically asked to be included. He more or less said that it was a complete waste of time having published the review as no-one would be able to buy it. I resisted the temptation to just tell him to fuck off. Instead I pointed out that any punter unprepared to spend 2 miinutes typing a name into Google probably wasn't going to buy his album in the first place. I'm unlikely to be suggesting we cover his albums in future. (It was a rubbish CD anyway, as it happens...)

You really threw it in the BIN, Graham?? Gadzooks! And there are so many things you can use CDs for: beermats, costume jewellery.. Luc Ferrari used to hang them on the fruit trees in his garden to scare birds away..

Yes, Dan, into the bin. Dead centre. Both discs. I was tempted to follow Luc Ferrari's lead, but there's a super-attractive girl who lives in the apartment 20m directly opposite mine, and she hangs her unwanted CD's out on her balcony on strings to blow in the wind. However, that means that every time the sun catches them, I get temporarily blinded. Since I had in mind other things to do with her / to her, I decided not to reciprocate.

I wrote a very positive, adoring review of Alterations' "Voila Enough!" for S2N and Beresford wrote in a carping complaint letter (which Gershon published) about how I didn't get every detail of David Toop's life and career correct. I though, fuck you, buddy. Last time I ever write YOU up.

Yeah, you guys are right. You can get yelled at for good reviews too, if you don't suck hard enough or in just the proper place.

Djil

Shouldn't you try and be above that sort of thing then? I mean a certain musician could be a pain etc but still be very significant to a certain music? Wouldn't is be your "duty" to write about it?
Just a question, not so much a critisism.....
Cor

"I wrote a very positive, adoring review of Alterations' "Voila Enough!" for S2N and Beresford wrote in a carping complaint letter (which Gershon published) about how I didn't get every detail of David Toop's life and career correct. I though, fuck you, buddy."
If you made a factual mistake he was right to pull you up on it. Beresford is a meticulous guy. Instead of saying fuck you you should acknowledge the fact that the review wasn't prepared as well as it should have been. And, yes, as Cor suggests, you should be above all that by now. You're not 16 years old anymore.

IMHO, the first poster was closest to the truth when he brought up "prettiness" point; my strictly personal opinion would be that decent portion of recent "lowercase eai" (which I heard) tends to meet up the expectations regarding "electroacoustic fragrance", certain feel of "weird acoustic cosiness", that, I think, requisits from the clash and grit this music should indulge, as improvised music.

My two cents, though...

You know what kind of positive review really pisses me off? The ones that say things like "this kind of music is not for everyone, it's irritating and indulgent and really off-putting to most people's ears, and very few people could stand to listen to it, but the CD is very good. Four stars."

I see this a lot in publications where out-music neophyte critics are given a lot of space.

I wrote to an editor of a publication a while back because the reviewer in his attempt to be positive wrote that my trio CD had no detectable melodies and that there wasn't any rhythmic content, which is pretty absurd. He kept referring over and over to how COLD the record was. He used the word three times in the review. And yet, he was trying to say he liked it. That stuff gets to me.

Dan and Cor, you are right. Unfortunately the letter from Beresford was printed and I wasn't given notice, therefore had no chance to answer in print in the same issue. I decided to let his comments stand as the last word.

"Dan and Cor, you are right. Unfortunately the letter from Beresford was printed and I wasn't given notice, therefore had no chance to answer in print in the same issue."
That's Pete Gershon's fault for not notifying you sufficiently early. You should have been warned in advance and ready to respond. That's what happened when Leo Feigin laid into Kurt Gottschalk.
Don't let it put you off Steve's music though! If you ever feel like writing on his stuff again for me, just say the word Tom!

"You know what kind of positive review really pisses me off? The ones that say things like "this kind of music is not for everyone, it's irritating and indulgent and really off-putting to most people's ears, and very few people could stand to listen to it, but the CD is very good. Four stars.""

ugh. . tell me about it. francois couture always does that in allmusic.com. what's the point? especially on a site like allmusic, people are only checking something out if they are at least disposed to be interested. [sorry, i can't find a good example right now].

richard - any particular reason the cathnor site doesn't have sound clips? thanks.

TRUE STORY: I just idly wandered across to Sound 323's MySpace site, and noticed that The Large Glass is on autoplay there. I put my headphones on to listen to it. I liked the shimmering drones underpinning the track, but was surprised at the radio samples, which were certainly daring, but also pretty heavy-handed. And I was surprised that no-one here had mentioned them - I'd have thought they'd have been more of a talking point in their clumsiness and unoriginality than any of the other 'prettiness' issues.

A full 2 minutes into the piece, I realised that I still had the BBC Five Live media player running from when I'd been listening to the cricket, which by then had finished (New Zealand cantering home by 7 wickets) to leave the default BBC Sport promotion messages on autoloop.

Rather than just red-facedly close the pop-up window, I faded it out tastefully over the course of 30 seconds or so. It was a nice effect.

Ha! i've done similar things before now...

Youre giving me ideas for a Korber/Halliwell/Keith Rowe trio now though ;)

If there's any cricket commentary on it I'm frisbeeing it straight in the bin!

Now, Dan, let's have a little more respect for Cricket, please! The most complex and subtle of games, as the Aussies well know. Heck, any game which takes five days to complete must have something going for it!

Jesse, only just spotted your query about soundclips. The main reasons for their absence are pressures on my time, (60 hour a week dayjob, relationship maintenance etc...) and the fact I have only just figured html enough to do a basic site! Maybe soon though.
To be honest though I don't think I'd have put up sound clips of The Large Glass as any low bitrate mp3 would sound awful for that recording. Its one that really needs good quality open air play to get the best out of it.

Anyway I'm in a Dublin cafe right now over for the i and e fest. Tilbury, Guthrie, Colley, La Casa, Neumann, Lacey, Vogel, Kelly and lots more I temporarily forget. :)

Screw cricket - every time cricket's on I can't hear the news on Radio 4 Long Wave!
Say hi to La Casa, Richard. I see the Irish play cricket too.. careful they don't beat England.. national team coaches who lose to the Irish tend to die in mysterious circumstances (see I do follow it after all)

Dan, now you really disappoint me. I'd have thought that you'd have realized, as an improvising musician, that there's is more room for improvisation in cricket than in any other sport you could name. It's played on a vast ground, it's subject to weather variables, it's subject to each player's changing psychology day by day, it's subject to such a huge number of unforeseeable variables that only a good improviser can figure it out. And the Aussies have proved themselves masters of that type of improvisation, as you might have seen from this winter's Ashes Series down under. None of this bird-brained yank-baseball style crap where the batsman gets three strokes or he's out. A cricketer can face 3, 300 or 3,000 balls … and does. Given the infinite possibilities of setting one's fieldsmen correctly, and use of spin, pace or other bowling tactics, you have a first-class opportunity to improvise for five days. Can you improvise interestingly for five days? Or are you not a musical cricketer?! If not, may the Lord have mercy on your withered soul.

three strokes or he's out

--or something like that. ;>}

What a lotta tosh! They spend half the time standing around outfield and the rest lounging around the pavilion waiting to be bowled out by the Aussies! No, never bought into that music = cricket Neville Cardus bullshit. Watch your ass attacking baseball too - Milton Babbitt might write in! In fact (and here I'm perfectly serious) if all sport disappeared from the face of the Earth overnight, my life wouldn't be at all different.. "Sport is bullshit" as KRS One once said :)

Oh Dan, sniff ... I thought you were an improviser ... !

In fact if all sport disappeared from the face of the Earth overnight, my life wouldn't be at all different.

Now this is something, Dan I'm in 100% agreement with you on. :)

Heavens! What can an improviser know about life or music if he has never faced a seamer, a yorker, a doosra, a googly or has never had to do battle with reverse swing??? If the cover point is a touch too fine, a chap might just make the boundary, long off being at too sharp an angle. However, with a third slip and a gully, things can become dangerous, especially if he's coming around rather than over. On the leg side, mid-wicket should always be well-protected, and a fast-moving third man is a strategic necessity. Leg spinners will require several sharp slips, while off spinners will normally require a cunning leg slip. Pacemen of course require some depth in the field and an agile keeper. And no cow shots please, after all we don't want a Duckworth-Lewis result, do we?

Makes Twelve Tone Theory sounds like a piece of cake, wot?

There's tea, right?

Quite right Reuben, and that's vaguely improvised too.

In fact if all sport disappeared from the face of the Earth overnight, my life wouldn't be at all different.

What nonsense! You'd be able to hear the news on Radio 4 Long Wave, for a start.

My opinion of Graham Rogers is suddenly much higher than it used to be.

Although I don't see the link between "cow shots" (surely "shots to cow corner"?) and the possibility of a result by the Duckworth/Lewis method at all. The Vera Duckworth method, maybe.

It's all a matter of improvisation, Alistair.

like spelling my name.

And mine.

really? No? Really? Incredible? Really? I cant believe it? Yeah? Waouh...

Best,

A

Get a DVD of Diego Corrales vs Jose Luis Castillo, first fight. Pure poetry!