Circum-Disc/Helix
LX 001
La Pieuvre (Octopus) is a large, ungainly creature under the purported direction of Olivier Benoit. I haven’t broken down the number of musicians present on the individual tracks here, recorded at five different times and places over the course of six years, but the total involved is around 30. Even were it not pointed out in the liners, it would not have been difficult to hear a clear organizational precedent in the conduction work pioneered by Butch Morris which seems to be more or less Benoit’s mode of operation. Sounds, especially when the ensemble is at the more frenetic end of things, tend to come in slabs, massed chunks of mottled noise fitting roughly into general notions such as “rock-like”, “free jazz”, “quiet contemplation”, etc.
When it’s operating full bore, I have a tough time with it. Adjectives like “lumbering” keep creeping into my thoughts; think of the more ponderous moments from Centipede’s “Septober Energy” (another multi-legged creature; hmmm….). Several vocalists are involved and, on pieces where they come to the fore, they slide right into the sort of strident, declamatory tones that drive this listener up the wall. When things calm down a notch and dwell in the quiet but scurryingly active, it’s marginally better, but the activity on tracks like “Drop Attack” simply doesn’t retain a great amount of interest, coming across like so much noodling and make-work, though that particular conduction also includes some orchestral blasts straight out of Mantler’s “Communications” that fare well. Happily, Benoit does allow things to further reduce to a lovely simmer on a few other cuts like the ensuing “Dot Blot”, consisting of intricate strands of low-level hums and buzzes, accented here and there by percussive booms and the odd saxophone squeal, eventually welling back up into something of a behemoth but on the whole conveying a strong sense of contemplation and perceptive interest in one’s surroundings. The following track, “Western Blot”, is similarly effective though again, Benoit feels the need for a crescendo that struck me as unnecessary. Both were recorded at the same 2002 session; perhaps that’s simply where Benoit’s head was at the time. I would have greatly enjoyed a single album’s worth of music like this.
However, this is a double disc containing some 140 minutes of music and, by my calculations, the ratio of the elephantine (to cross species for a moment) to the gracile is about 3:1. It’s not simply a matter of quiet versus loud (though it’s disturbingly easy to so categorize much of the music here) as the excessive busyness in some of the quieter pieces (“Epiploon”) resembling nothing so much as several dozen mini-elephants rampaging willy-nilly. Certainly, this may appeal to many and, for example, I can see fans of Zorn’s “Cobra” and other game pieces taking a shine to much of the goings on here. For myself, I like very much the notion of taking 20-odd musicians and, somehow, getting them to rein in their more extravagant tendencies, to actually listen closely to each other. When that occurs on this recording, we hear some fine music. I wish it happened more often.
Posted by Brian Olewnick on March 18, 2007 5:28 PMI've only had one go at this one so far, but I share some of your reservations, Brian. The problem with any big band improv is it soon gets claggy and dense. This sounds better than things I've heard by other groups, LIO, for example, but - put it down to nostalgia for classical music's idea of the conductor - the most exciting big band outings I've heard are the Markus Eichenberger and Masahi Haradas on Emanem. Or Butch, of course. There's an element of necessary dictatorship to it all, perhaps.
But one listen isn't enough to pass judgement, is it?
What about King Übü? The lp and first cd especially. A roaring large group really works best when they understand energy music and have that as an implicit goal, like Cecil's Orchestra in the FMP box or Globe Unity, rather than improvisors just getting out of control.
Posted by: Damon Smith at March 19, 2007 9:52 AMI'll be even fuddy-duddier and say that I've never heard anything in this general area that beats the Mantler-led Communications from 1968. Still find that stuff as thrilling as ever.
Posted by: Brian Olewnick at March 19, 2007 11:53 AMDS: What about King Übü?
A great band, but remember it is typically only about 10 people. I think that is probably the limit before a conductor is required. Still, with 10 people it is possible to get a really big sound (Ubu, Barry Guy New Orchestra, a lot of Cecil's big groups). Really BIG groups mostly tend to just muddy the waters without actually adding any significant weight to the proceedings.
It's perhaps even more frustating when a conductor is present, but doesn't rein things in. Been involved in too many of those.
The two most important conduction signals for conducting improvisers are "quiet" and "stop".
Posted by: Jacob Lindsay at March 19, 2007 12:56 PMprobably the best example of large-group (over 15) improvising would be Cecil Taylor's European Orchestra recording from 88 (but didn't ye just know someone would pick that one)
Posted by: Levi Yitzchak at March 19, 2007 9:43 PMCommunications???!!?? You're joking, Brian?!
Whew. I admit I haven't heard that one for about 25 years, but at the time it sounded like the most dismal specimen of undifferentiated aural glop I ever heard.
That example brings in 'structured improv' anyway, and in that case, gimme Braxton's Compositions 56 & 57 (from Creative Orch Music 1976).
Posted by: djll at March 19, 2007 9:44 PMI think my favorite large ensemble structured improv stuff is by Alan Silva.
Posted by: walto at March 20, 2007 4:17 AMSeasons is CRAZY! I've still yet to sup all its secrets. The recording circumstances seem almost like an exta all-enveloping member of the ensemble. Walt, curious about your thoughts on the Treasure Box? I have the fourth disc, but haven't returned to it that often.
While we're on the subject of "structured" improv, how large was the Arkestral assemblage on Other Planes of There?
Posted by: derek at March 20, 2007 5:29 AMTom, me joke? *sputter*
No, I think it's a great, great recording. Adittedly, some of my rapture may derive from it having been almost the first time I heard many of the musicians involved--in fact, it was definitely the first I heard Cecil, around '73--which may well color my perceptions but, be that as it may, I find every piece on there very, very powerful. I still remember the downbeat reviewer remarking about Taylor's performance that he warily looked over at his stereo, half expecting the platter to be levitating off the turntable.
Posted by: Brian Olewnick at March 20, 2007 6:12 AMcurious about your thoughts on the Treasure Box?
Too expensive to buy. I really love Seasons, though.
Posted by: walto at March 20, 2007 12:02 PMWhat’s you’re take on Silva’s Luna Surface? I picked up a cut-out copy about a month ago, but have yet to crack it. Wondering too if you’ve changed your opinion of him being “washed-up” in terms of bass chops? Iirc, the catalyst was that All-Star Game set on Eremite, one I keep meaning to revisit, not the least for the combo of Kidd & Marshall.
Posted by: derek at March 20, 2007 2:02 PMLuna sounds like Alan trying to do Xenakis (he says so too). The Seasons is where the conduction really comes together, and also the Celestrial Communication Orchestra's My Country. Originally on Leo, later withdrawn (like all the good Leo albums haha) it's a 1971 Royan festival gig with stellar lineup - Braxton, Lacy, Kenyatta... Good luck tracking that down though.
Alan has plenty of unreleased CCO stuff in his vaults too, including 4 hours' worth live recs of the Desert Mirage band (with Arthur Doyle).
Dang! Some label needs to cut Alan a good deal so he'll release some of that music. I'm gonna start looking for that one on Leo...
Dan, was it vinyl-only or CD? I remember being in Chicago back in '98 and Jazz Record Mart had a whole lot of the old Leo vinyl on cut-out special. I picked up Borbeto's "Industrial Strength" and that Minton/Turner/Tomlison/Davies "The Ferals," which is a real smoker (think it got reissued, if so, it's highly recommended). Don't think they had the Silva cuz I would have bought it for sure.
Posted by: Rob Cambre at March 21, 2007 7:40 AM"What’s you’re take on Silva’s Luna Surface?"
Haven't heard it.
"Wondering too if you’ve changed your opinion of him being “washed-up” in terms of bass chops?"
I haven't heard him play bass in a couple of years. But the last two times I caught him live he was very bad.
Anyhow, I think Alan Silva is a very good keyboard player and a wonderful composer and--as there are lots of wonderful bass players around (some of whom post right here), I don't think it would be a great loss to music he were to hang up his bass for good. There are lots of other contributions he can make.
Posted by: walto at March 21, 2007 9:38 AMI only have a Leo CD of that disc Rob, the remaining stocks of which are, I believe, still with Didier Petit who took them back after he fell out with Leo (like many others I could mention). I don't know if it was ever released on vinyl, suspect it wasn't. But if you want a copy let me know and I'll put you in contact with the guys
Posted by: Dan Warburton at March 21, 2007 10:09 AMDan - I just scored one on Ebay, so yr wish of good luck on finding one actually worked! (Now wish me luck on winning the lottery, Danny-Leprachaun...)
Looking forward to hearing it. Is Silva playing with anyone in Paris these days? Curious as to what he's up to.
Posted by: Rob Cambre at March 29, 2007 11:22 AMRob, Alan & Catherine moved away to live outside Le Mans a few years back. As far as I know he's concentrating on some internet radio project. Not many gigs that I know of, and certainly very few in Paris. Maybe with Abdelhai Bennani, but I don't care much for what he does so I don't know.
Posted by: Dan Warburton at March 29, 2007 10:24 PM.................................................. © 2003 - 2006 bagatellen ..................................................