Fred Frith - October 2003

SIMPLY IN THEIR WORDS (Installment Cinco)

Interview conducted by Tom Sękowski

This is the fifth of a regular series of "simply in their words" series interviews with some of the musicians from the improvised, jazz and new music genres that are making a real mark on the landscape. I don't want to add Any additional text to these musicians' responses, as my words would only clutter what it is they're trying to convey to the readers.

What's there to say about Fred Frith that hasn't already been said a million times before? Henry Cow, Skeleton Crew, Massacre, Art Bears, Keep The Dog. But these are just names. Fred has been very instrumental in shaping the words improvisation, composition and co-operation in the world of music. I think it's only fair to turn the discussion over to him, to make sure simply his words get heard. This interview was conducted in October of 2003.

Tom Sękowski: When did you first realize that there is much more to the guitar than just six strings? Can you pin-point this down to a moment, an event or a particular occurrence?

Fred Frith: Not really. I was a folk guitar player, playing nylon string guitar. This was really my principle instrument, although I did play electric too. I noticed when hammering on that, notes were generated to the left of my left hand and I started idly seeing what would happen if I made them louder by taping a telephone mouthpiece microphone to the headstock. It was interesting but frustratingly 'thumpy'. A pick up on an electric guitar seemed more logical so I tried that, and once you start trying things you don't stop..... This was around 1969...

TS: What is the "prestige" about Mills College? [I say "prestige" as that's how it's referred to wherever I read about it.] Who or what [particular event?] convinced you to lecture on composition there?

FF: I don't lecture on composition. I teach composition to individual students. I teach various seminars, and I run the Contemporary Performance Ensemble. I came here for a few weeks as a resident composer in 1997 and really enjoyed the experience. Then this job came up and they asked if I would be interested to apply for it. I hadn't been looking for a job, I have to admit, but I think I was curious to see if I would get it in competition with a lot of pretty hip names, and when I did, I was initially a bit at a loss. I didn't really want to move, to be honest. But we took it on as a family adventure and we're still here! As for prestige, I think Mills' history speaks for itself - not just the association with the pioneers of electronic music on the West Coast, which leads directly to our Center for Contemporary Music, but the support for a very special experimental tradition reflected in the fact that Cage, Lou Harrison, Terry Riley, Pauline Oliveros, Anthony Braxton and many others have taught here. I am enormously honored to be in such company, and at the same time, I can't really imagine anywhere else that would even have thought of having me as a teacher! And the composers and improvisers who pass through make up a pretty amazing list. Since I've been here we've had Ikue Mori, Lesli Dalaba, Leo Smith, Jean Derome and Pierre Tanguay, Annea Lockwood, Maryanne Amacher, Janet Feder, Cecil Taylor, Peter Brötzmann, Jim O'Rourke, Han Bennink, Saadet Turkoz, the list goes on and on.

TS: Multi-instrumentalist... Why does this term apply to you? What is it about the "knowledge" or lack-of; do for your music and compositions?

FF: It applies to me because it's true - I play the guitar and electric bass, obviously, but also violin, viola, keyboards, percussion instruments. And if I need a particular sound, I enjoy learning how to do it, rather than just hiring someone. Obviously there are limits! I'm not sure what your second sentence means, but I have always liked to juxtapose different musical elements - hi-tech and lo-tech, new tech and old tech, virtuosity and bricolage - I like the tension that results.

TS: What was the necessity behind starting Fred Records a couple of years ago? Was one of the reasons to rescue the old RecRec record catalogue, or were you seeking a creative outlet for all of your music; a sanctuary to have a central stop for All Fred? Will you be releasing older material?

FF: Initially it was a place to re-release all the stuff that came back to me after RecRec went bankrupt. Then I thought it was the perfect place to put out archive material that hadn't ever had an outlet - dance music, installations, and live recordings of special interest. It won't ever be a place for current productions that require a budget, but I have excellent relations with Tzadik and Winter & Winter so I'm in a very good position, as far as I'm concerned. The only question is really what 'older' means. I'll be releasing material from 20 years ago, but from last year too... anything that doesn't seem to fit anywhere else. Within the next couple of years I would say. There are a lot of things still on the list from RecRec - "Technology of Tears", "Skeleton Crew", "Allies", "Massacre" - but there are also a lot of French projects like "Helter Skelter" that will probably all have their own part of the label...

TS: Are you scared of the sound of your own voice? Everywhere I turn, there is writing about Fred being weary of his voice? What is the real truth, and are we going to have a record of all Fred songs?

FF: I love my voice, I'm just realistic - I 'm not a great singer! But that never stopped anyone else in the rock and roll business, and it probably won't stop me either...

TS: Tell me about the role of visual arts in your work?

FF: That's a huge question. As a composer who writes for film and dance more or less constantly, I never really escape visual arts. I've also collaborated both as improviser and composer, with painters and sculptors. The only area I'm wary of is 'multi-media' and video, but since my better half is increasingly concerned with video in her work as an artist, this is changing rather rapidly. My graphic scores are based on my own photos, and they're on permanent exhibit at the Boston Photographic Resource Center. What I don't like is the preponderance of music performances that feel like they have to include visual elements, usually bad videos, which distract attention from the good qualities in the music. I do like the idea that music is unique in being focused on the ears and the body (what we feel physically), not on what we see...

TS: I've been listening to "Rivers and Tides" over and over again for the last few months. One thing that I wanted to know is what it is about film composition or composing for films - that appeal to you?

FF: The art of finding the perfect sound and the right moment

TS: Can you tell me how "Rivers and Tides" came about? Can you reveal a little about choosing the musicians? What is the subject of the film?

FF: It came about I guess because Thomas was fascinated with Andy Goldsworthy's work, especially in that it made much more sense to experience it in a time-based medium like cinema than in coffee table books, since it's all about time and ephemerality. For me it came about because Thomas called me and asked me to do it. Nothing very mysterious about that. But I REALLY wanted this job, I think because I identified with the subject quite strongly - we're from the same part of England (the North) and we're both outsiders in a certain way. I think it's interesting that people really relate deeply to Andy's work, but I've often seen him put down by art critics, and I think that's also a class thing - he doesn't talk right, he didn't go to the right school maybe... I chose the musicians as always based on my local network of players in Stuttgart where I lived at the time. Wolfgang Stryi is in the Ensemble Modern, and he's an incredible player, so that was a special case...

TS: You've worked with dozens of gifted guitarists over the years Kaiser, Chadbourne, Lussier, Sharrock, Bailey, etc. What draws you into working with other guitarists?

FF: Actually, I don't necessarily enjoy it all that much, and I don't do it very often. I'd love to record a CD with Frisell, but he's not up for it! In all fairness that was a bit of a joke - I DID ask him to make a record with me more than ten years ago and at that time he said no in a rather typically non-committal way! But I haven't given up on the idea, because I think our languages are sufficiently different for it to be interesting. And playing with Ribot and Nels Cline is a blast. I guess in the end, I like working with rock players; the experimental guitar scene doesn't do much for me. My guitar quartet is a different story...

TS: Having done a live radio show for nearly 10 years, I'm curious to find out what broadcasting gives back to your life? Do you retrieve any ideas from radio itself, from "doing" radio? [Radio as art or "Radio Art"]

FF: Definitely it honed my mixing skills. I did some live record mixing on Stuttgart Free Radio and people were calling the station and saying: "My God where can I buy that!". I grew up with radio, and with no TV, so radio taught me about music, jazz especially. And radio plays, which have all but died in the US, are still a vital medium in many other countries - I love working in that way.

TS: Why did it take over a decade to release "Keep The Dog" sessions from your European tour? Were there no interested parties who would release this treasure chest of material?

FF: It was more that none of us were convinced the material was good enough, and we were all busy with other things so we kind of forgot about it. When Jon Leidecker saw the tapes in my office he flipped and said "I'll do it" and it was his energy and enthusiasm that got the ball rolling again (not to mention his editing skills).

TS: You tackle so many varied projects within any given year composing, teaching and playing live. I'm wondering what your secret is to successful multi-tasking?

FF: I'm pretty well organized (which would no doubt make my family and my students crack up if they heard that but hey) and I get up early in the morning and I don't like to waste time so it all just kind of happens.

Tom Sękowski: Is there any particular project, exhibition or composition that you're most proud of? Why?

FF: I liked what Harrison Birtwhistle said when he was asked that question - "yes there is but I don't remember which one"!

TS: You once wrote in a 1979 issue of "Musics"... "Does free improvisation relate to anarchy in the same way that structured improvisation relates, say, to democracy?" Fourteen years down the road, do you have an answer to your own question?

FF:Do you have a copy of that article? - I'd love to see what I wrote back then... And improvisation has changed a lot in the interim, and so has politics. Issues of leadership and authority are still important, but players have developed so many strategies, and will continue to do so. It's clearer than ever that responsibility is the key.....

TS: Do you think North America is a close-minded continent that doesn't "allow" your music to permeate through the musical psyche? In other words, why comparatively speaking, do you work so little on this continent?

FF: Continent is pushing it - I work in Quebec very consistently, and in Canada in general. And I DO work in the USA just that since there is so little support for new music, it's hard to present more large-scale work here or composed work in general. But other than that, I do a lot of improvised concerts, and things are changing. I have had several US commissions, and now ensembles are starting to ask for pieces. I'm very encouraged. The media is never exactly supportive except for pockets of open-ness, but I'm kind of used to that. And media counts for very little in terms of its influence on things. Bad reviews don't seem to impact sales of tickets or CDs in the least!

TS: Are you at a point now where you can say you've explored composition and improvisation as far as you possibly can? If not, then what direction[s] are you pursuing now?

FF: That would be silly. I think I'm just beginning. I'm very interested in multiple perspectives happening simultaneously, so that's what I'm working on right now.

TS: Can you honestly say that there's anybody that you haven't worked with yet, that you'd like to?

FF: Again, that's a bit exaggerated! I like to work with people who are coming up, who are discovering things - it gives the music an edge. Or when a really great performer like Evelyn Glennie opens up to completely different ways of working - that's really exciting too. Actually I'm already working with Evelyn - we played together last summer in a film that's being made about her, and I'm sure the collaboration will continue. Evelyn is a phenomenon in every sense, probably the highest level of virtuoso that I've ever worked with, which is saying a lot. I was initially drawn to her because one of my children is hard of hearing and loves music and she was an inspiring role model for him. But in the end the whole issue of "how does she do it" proved completely secondary - what's really astonishing is her passion, her open-ness, her curiosity; when you encounter that kind of energy it tends to force you to take your own playing to a higher level, and how could anyone resist that?

TS: What can we look forward to from you in terms of recordings in the forthcoming future? What treasures will you unearth on Fred Records next?

FF: Oh the list is endless... I've got some great dance pieces with Carla Kihlstedt's amazing violin; some crazy performances from when I was composer in residence at a Music School in France; all kinds of stuff.... I've just recorded all of my String Quartet pieces with Arditti Quartet, and once the editing is finished that will be released on Winter & Winter next year. I also have a second volume of film music coming out on Tzadik, and there are various other things in the works which will see the light of day eventually-film soundtracks, improvisations....

Selected recommended Fred Frith recordings:

Fred Frith The Technology of Tears (And Other Music for Dance) (RecRec, 1987)
Sato Michihiro Rodan (hatHUT, 1989)
Fred Frith/Chris Cutler Live Vol. 2 (ReR, 1994)
John Zorn/Fred Frith The Art of Memory (Incus, 1994)
Katrin Scholl, Daniel Erismann, Hans Koch, Fred Frith, Peter Kowald, Lucas N. Niggli Nil (Unit Records, 1995)
Fred Frith Guitar Quartet Ayaya Moses (Ambience Magnetiques/DAME, 1997)
Fred Frith The Previous Evening (ReR, 1997)
Fred Frith Gravity (Fred Records/ReR, 2001)
Fred Frith Speechless (Fred Records/ReR, 2001)
Fred Frith Keep The Dog (Fred Records/ReR, 2001)
Fred Frith Accidental (Fred Records/ReR, 2001)
Fred Frith Step Across The Border (Fred Records/ReR, 2002)
Fred Frith Guitar Solos (Fred Records/ReR, 2002)
Fred Frith Prints (Fred Records/ReR, 2002)
Fred Frith Rivers and Tides {working with time} (Winter&Winter 2003)

Middle of the Moment (A cinepoem about nomadic life) DVD - Film by Nicolas Humbert and Werner Penzel / Music by Fred Frith (Winter&Winter 2003)
Step Across The Border DVD - Film by Nicolas Humbert and Werner Penzel / Music by Fred Frith (Winter&Winter, 2003)

Posted by derek on January 9, 2006 6:59 PM