Your mention of Destination: Out reminded me of Melodiradion (http://melodiradion.podomatic.com). Every month they post a podcast of rare free jazz treats. They seem to be themed. The latest offering is a live set by Brotzmann, Gustafsson & Vandermark from 2001. My personal favorite has been the set of live Don Cherry performances.

As well as the link to Bagatellen that Brian Olewnick provides in his blog, there are at least three references to Bags in the text, so you really shouldn't be miffed, Derek, if indeed you are.

As to blogs themselves . . . they bore me, in the main, and I rarely read them, even when (as with Nate Dorner and Brian O) I'm keen to hear their opinion about something. But maybe that says something more pejorative about me rather than them.

Nate Dorner! Now that's a lovely slip.. I wonder if we should tell Axel Dorward!
Nate will be join other Bags regular heroes Kaoru Abbey, Brian Marley Marl, Derek Cecil, Dan Wobble and Damon Smith Albarn in a new supergroup called The Year Off. Watch this space for further details!

Heh, outed.

As I posted there back near the beginning (May, actually), I liked the idea of starting one of these things and not telling anyone, not a soul, curious about how long, by whom and via what avenue it would be discovered, if in fact it was ever found. (I made an exception for an old friend, Mark Forman, whose blog I discovered around the same time, someone I hadn't seen since '76) I think I was about a month in when our own Gerardo stumbled upon it--at least he was the first to let me know he'd visited (the prize--a beer of his choice--wil be delivered this weekend if he makes it here for ErstQuake). A few days later my friend, musician Dan Carlson, was shamelessly googling on himself and his wife, the painter Julia Jacquette. As I had mentioned both of them in my Record Club post, mine was the only site that came up where they were both cited. I guess now there'll be two.

A few weeks back, I appended the url to posts I made at Destination:Out and Steve Smith's blog...

Anyway, I've found it to be a useful tool for, among other things, sorting out musical issues including some with regard to things reviewed here; kind of a sketchpad. Any contradictions between views stated there and published here, well, deal with it.

Speaking of musical issues, what's going on with One Final Note? Is it done for good?? Hope not.

what are you doing up so early brian??? and how was the last set?

That Brian Marley guy always gets things wrong, really dents my fender. And his alter ego, Brian Marley Marl, is the worst tambourine player on the planet, king of the no-talents, take my sacred word for it.

Miffed is probably too strong a sentiment… how about ever-so-slightly-chafed? :) I appreciate Brian’s mention of Bags, but what I’m more concerned with (as usual) is fostering fresh content here beyond my often-banal posts. It’s ultimately a throw-your-hands-up exercise since pressuring folks to post here isn’t the right move either. The bullpen has gone back and forth on whether the Blog portion of this site is even viable anymore. About all it’s really good for is serving as tinder for discussions and the tendency for those to detour into pie-fights is still a reality. I dunno, the status quo seems to be its natural state & I should really stop playing Sisyphus with the boulder.

And enough of the third person… Brian, sorry for the “outing” if it runs contrary to your designs. I totally understand the purpose behind creating a homestead in your own neck of the virtual woods as well as testing the whole anonymity thing. I made mention of it mostly because I dig what’s there and believe more folks should be reading it. I made a similar gaffe with Al "Namor" Jones short-lived Blog awhile back:

http://www.bagatellen.com/archives/frontpage/000886.html

Nah, no problem Derek. I just view it as a place for more personal, mutable musings.

Barry, I hate to tell ya, but you missed the set of the evening, imho, though I think the audience opinion was decidedly split. (for the benefit of others, this was Mattin/Tim Barnes at ErstQuake)

Tim was on stage with a large sock cymbal that, I think, was hooked up to his electronics set-up. Mattin was carrying a laptop, holding it open alongside his head, walking a circle around the rear of the space, the computer emitting a high, intense whine. Just by using that space, it immediately opened the place up--you sort of didnt' realize how hermetic things had gotten. After several minutes of this (Barnes creating a strong, cymbal-drone up front), he began pacing back and forth up the center aisle, shouting (very loudly) a series of phrases that I'm guessing were English ("fucking" was one of the few intelligible words). It was getting rather scary. There was an amp on a wobbly table just in front of the stage and he began to utilize the feedback potentialities offered between it and his computer which were, not surprisingly, pretty severe. This chaos was embellished by him repeated yelling a phrase directly into the laptop mic-hole. Despite iterating it several dozen times, decipherings post-concert were varied. My stab was, "Computers are fucking with you". I'm probably wrong. Barnes, all the while was fantastic, creating a super-rich roar behind all this. I was waiting for Mattin to smash his laptop on either the amp or the unlucky heads of the front row denizens, but this didn't occur (fair warning, though, to future attendees).

I thought it was a real strong set in and of itself, but also served as a welcome, er, tonic to the relatively tepid nature of the preceding sets (though I like Los Glissandinos a lot too).

That'll learn ya to leave early.

(see, Derek, here you got a post I probably would've otherwise put on my blog! :-))

damn.. well hopefully he saved something for saturday night. im gonna try to get over for the 4th set tonight, otherwise - see you saturday!

"the prize--a beer of his choice--..."

Heh that would be a Guiness, or Anchor Steam.

"wil be delivered this weekend if he makes it here for ErstQuake"

Been kicking myself for not making it. I'm also following constantly the IHM thread, very nice pics and some reports there: http://ihatemusic.bagatellen.com/viewtopic.php?t=3689&start=300

There should be a bags thread for the discussion of this...

There should be a bags thread for the discussion of this...

I hereby nominate Brian to start one. :)

Well, I don't think I'll be doing that, for one because I couldn't attend the Friday events and second, I wasn't thinking in terms of writing about it (officially) while watching/listening, always a better way to experience these things.

But it ran the gamut from fairly excruciating, physically and aesthetically, to excellent. My favorite "moment" was a group of sets, the first three on Saturday: Mattin/Malfatti, Stangl/Fagaschinski and Cosmos, all three very beautiful performances, all on the quiet side but each very different. Also right up there was the wild Mattin/Barnes set from opening night as well as most of the English/Sachiko set. Other very enjoyable ones were Los Glissandinos, Jerman/Davis, Barnes/Jerman/Meehan, Yoshida/Kurzmann and at least the Lescalleet portion of Niblock/Lescalleet which, if I'm understanding what was happening there, seemed pretty much divvied up between first and second halves of the set.

Less enjoyable: GOD, JazKamer, a few others.

Still too tired to go into detail but will do so later if pressed.

...And there’s another selfish part of me wishes he had posted some of those topics here in the perpetually listing Bags Blog...

I think one (the?) reason for the torpor of the main blog here is connected with something I've mentioned a couple of times in the past. It's that it's never been entirely clear what bagatellen is or is intending to be. (As you know, I've twice suggested that it be THE place for simultaneous IM-type music reviews, but that's never happened--probably for many good reasons.)

Brian's blog I can understand. It's something like a public diary or journal. People who are interested in his take on the world may wish to read it. Is bagatellen intended to be the same sort of thing, except for a bunch of people? Who? You and Al? Phil? Me and everybody else who has been given the password? What are we supposed to write about? Beer and movies apparently, but what about local politics or our love lives? Any and every topic? But why should anybody be interested in these posts? Is this group of people intrinsically interesting because they know something about (or at least occasionally write about) improvised music? Is this likely to make their views about movies or beer more interesting to others? More likely to be sensible? Or is it that we're a little community of friends writing to and for each other?

Please understand, Derek, I'm not intending to criticize. I'm really only expressing my ignorance. I mean, other than the music reviews, which I've understood to be its focus since its inception, I've never really fathomed this site, and I don't have any concrete sense of what's considered appropriate here. Do you think of it as an online fine arts mag? A community of music-loving friends? A modern improv fanzine?

Again, I'm not intending to grouse or cast stones: I like the place and hope to continue to come here often. I've enjoyed both the reviews and the ensuing arguments. It's just that while I feel comfortable spouting off about say, film on one's parent's teeth at Jazz Corner, I don't know whether dental expertise is required for such a posting here--and if not, why not.

Does that make sense?

That makes a lot of sense, Walt. Fwiw, I don’t have a firm/universal definition of what Bagatellen is either. It started out as one thing under Al’s original stewardship and has since become something else several times over as folks drift in and out of the mix. In other words, it’s been basically rudderless for a long while.

For me personally, it’s been a place to self-publish reviews and to post on topics that interest me. It’s always a crapshoot whether those topics will be of interest to anyone else. Sometimes they are (the recent Zorn and beer threads), other times apparently not (the Lightnin’ Slim post below, numerous ROW entries, etc.). As far as having any more insight into any of the topics discussed here, I feel safe in saying that I don’t. Nevertheless, we do have a decent readership & reputation and numerous folks appear to be linking to Bags from their own sites. That traffic sometimes surprises me given the nebulous nature of the subject parameters here, but I also take it to mean that we’re doing something right. That’s just my perspective; others probably see things differently.

I have been thinking that a large part of the problem is that we’re still working within the original framework that Al designed and that maybe that structure has outlived its usefulness (ie. if people aren’t interested in posting in the blog, what’s the point of having one?). Relatedly, I have thought about setting sail with my own site, but the established nature of Bags coupled with my Luddite’s understanding of web design/upkeep has kept me landlocked here.

As far as what’s acceptable in blog or elsewhere: I’ve long been using the basic & highly mutable rule of thumb that if it’s in some way related to the arts or improvisation, then it’s fair game. Posts on beer, candy & Dan’s adventures on the high seas are more for humor’s sake than anything serious, though a post on teeth tartar isn’t something I’d want to read or respond to either :) I’d much rather read your perspectives on music, film, philosophy, etc., but understand that perhaps this place isn’t conducive to that sort of participation on your part. That’s cool. The community aspect of Bags, fueled primarily by the Comments function of the site’s architecture IS what keeps me coming back. I think it’s what keeps others returning too, far moreso than the opportunity to read my more formalized (password-prompted) musings.

Anyway, thanks for sounding off & apologies to readers who are tired of the recent turn toward meta topics here.

I think the great thing about Bagatellen is the dialog between writers, listeners and musicians.
It is especially good for musicians like myself ( and maybe Joe and Weasel) who have put in a ton of research in order to play the music better, but are not interested in being writers.
Some of my research coems through the bass and some does not, it is great to have an outlet for it in the discussions here.

The communication here is great, there are so few checks and balances in this music.
I think the reviews for this site tend be better than average, since the writers know they will get called on it if the facts are off.
A blog with no posts still communicates something, maybe the writer got it right, maybe nobody cares - it still says something.
It seems like Al is into not defining it, and then it defines itself
much like the music.

just today

first time

I listened to this Xenakis's piece

La légende d'Eer...

WAAAOUUUAAAAAHHHHH

Try "Persepolis" next ... !

yes... I have Persepolis already...

I want to relisten to it in fact... somehow I felt something I prefered in Légende d'Eer... less dark than "Persepolis"... I should learn about the reasons behind this compositions...

Légende d'Eer was like some kinda magic trip... how it moves this masses of sounds... and the variety of it....

and this beginning... the high pitched synth sounds... really clear sound... cristal... and then all this activity... I can really feel... LIFE in there... not cold or arid or minimal or fake or still ... mix of JOY CHAOS FREEDOM...

I dont know... pfffffff....

yep
+