What's the thing with multiple guitars? Rhys Chatham's had a bash at it a few times, and though I've never heard him do it live the CD sounds pretty tame. Otomo did something for 50 here a while back. But I wonder what it's all in aid of; Branca was loud enough with six or seven guitars when I saw him here a few years back. Over half the audience walked out after three minutes - quite an achievement. Those who stayed were treated to the spectacle of GB writhing in orgasmic ecstasy to his own music while "conducting" the band, and pouring a bottle of Coke over his head to cool himself down. If that's what he did with half a dozen guitars, God knows what he's likely to get up to onstage with a hundred.

There were actually only eighty five guitars, and twenty of them were bass guitars.

I don't really know how to describe the sound, though. It was like the entire room was howling. It's not just about the volume all of the guitars produce-- you could be just as loud with a couple of instruments, but there'd be so much more clarity. With eighty five, what you hear doesn't sound like strings. More like huge evil clouds...

I haven't heard his recent work, but the cloud effect Bill describes seemed to have been one of his goals early on. I was at the NYC show in the early 80s that ended up being the recorded version of Symphony #2 and the overtones you picked up deep in your ear made it sound like there was a miniature angelic (or demonic) choir in residence in your cochlea.

Though it appears like it's still a good idea to keep one's eyes shut during his performances to escape the anguished writhing.

I was in the bass section for this gig (a few seats from Mike Watt!). Amazing. My body is still vibrating (as is my right hand - the parts were almost all tremolo picked, and I never play with a pick).

There are 20 different written parts - four bass parts and the rest guitars in "alto," "tenor," and "baritone" tunings (each one note, some in octaves). Besides the cloud effect, having several players on each part smoothes out the tonal differences, i.e. who has a Rickenbacker through a Vox and who has a Les Paul through a Marshall.

"Volunteers" is correct. Except for Branca, Myers, and Moorfield, the band was unpaid (though we were fed, and the guitar players got all the replacement strings they needed).

And no writhing. Branca stayed off stage until the bows. He admitted at the pre-concert talk that Myers had done most of the actual cuing from the concertmaster chair on his last couple of pieces, so it seemed logical to abandon his own "conducting" efforts.

As far as Uncle Walt, yeah, but last year Kara Walker did a performance at the REDCAT (the avant-garde venue stuck in the back corner of the place: www.redcat.org) that demolished Disney's "Song of the South." Then, a couple of months later, there was a screening of Lotte Reiniger's "The Adventures of Prince Achmed," the oldest extant animated feature despite Disney's claims for "Snow White."

awesome, Jeff. Thanks for reporting. How long was the performance?

It was pretty trance-inducing, but probably around 70 minutes of music (in four movements, with longer-than-usual pauses between them for restringing & retuning).

The low price may also have been due to the relatively short show, but what could you program for the other "set?" Tony Conrad? Merzbow?

Many thanks for the eyewitness accounts, Jeff & Bill; that’s exactly the sort of thing I was hoping for by posting the blurb above. Do either of you know if there’s a complete roster available anywhere? Jeff's tantalizing comment about Watt has me wondering who else was there? (Nels Cline? Jim McAuley? etc.)

Looks like Vinny Golia’s Large Ensemble is playing that Redcat space Jeff mentioned tomorrow & Saturday.

And back to Branca, I’ve yet to investigate his work other than a fleeting sampling here and there. Any can’t miss recs from those in the know?

A roster was in the program and I expect will appear on glennbranca.com eventually. Players I knew or knew of, besides Watt, were Jeremy Drake, Carey Fosse, Robert Jacobsen, Ken Rosser, and Page Hamilton. Three days w/o pay is rough, and probably explains the absence of most of the other cats you could name (plus some of the reading was pretty challenging and, of course, not everyone digs Branca).

Excerpts from Branca's CDs are on his site. I'm hoping a recording of this show will turn up online, despite the usual pre-show warning. Heck, someone probably could have gotten a decent recording from across the street. Bill, you witness any taping?

I find that his initial release (not counting the stuff with The Static and Theoretical Girls), "The Ascension" holds up very well, especially the title track. The Symphonies mostly have their moments, some (No. 6, I think) pretty strong, but he hits a peak of sorts with Nos 8 & 10, which I also saw performed at the Kitchen, a very intense experience. #9 struck me as a substantial drop-off and I subsequently haven't heard anything more recent (if there's been anything released?).

If you can locate it, the shared LP with John Giorno, "Who You Starin' At?", is pretty good too.

Yeah "The Ascension" is still my favorite of Branca's work. But what I really wanted to say is VIRGIL MOOREFIELD!!! Wow, a name I hadn't seen in forever and a record I wish I could track down is called "Now There Is No Time" I remember totally loving that in my freeform radio days when that came out but could never track down a copy for myself. Anyone know it?

the LA Phil has been recording all of the shows during this series (the "Minimalist Jukebox"). some are going to end up on the iTunes music store.

i just got home from the all-keyboard night. i'm a little disappointed because they played "Four Organs" on Kurzweil K-2000's rather than on electric organs. Blech!

there were a bunch of people i know and sort-of know in the 100 guitar ensemble. my good friends jeremy drake and will kreppel played. there were a bunch of people that you'd only know if you went to tons of underground shows in LA (i.e.: members of the wives, no age, and gowns). no nels or jim mcauley. i was more surprised that g.e. stinson didn't play. he must have been out of town because he would have really dug it.

Hey all!

Recently discovered your website and kinda like it so far… FYI this version of Branca’s Symphony No. 13 that you’re talking about is apparently a new version of a piece of his that was commissioned by some French cultural institution in 2001 (never appeared on CD or anything yet). This ‘revised’ Hallucination City performance actually premiered on February 4, 2006 at the Montclair State University of New Jersey. The setting was 80 guitars, 20 basses and Wharton Tiers behind the drum kit. And that was some pretty overwhelming maelstrom of sound!!! Occasionally really loud, but still less than what he can do live with his Branca-Bloor quartet: I’ll remember for a long time their 15-minute appearance at Tonic a couple years ago during a benefit show for Richard Foreman’s Ontological-Hysteric Theatre : Branca was playing like a sort of ridiculously cool no-wave noise-rock Elvis!!! Yep, no less! I must say I’m mostly a fan of early Branca’ small bands and short songs and I have much less patience listening to most his multi-string symphonies (not all of them though). Being lucky enough to whitness the New Jersey performance, I realized what I probably missed before. The thing is I’m not sure the current state of technology can really capture what kind of physical experience it is to listen to a hundred amps generating waves of sound, overlapping, interfering, slowly moving around the space and crashing down your tympanic membrane for longer than one hour… Also I’m not sure the casual listener typically does have the appropriate sound system capable of rendering the three-dimensional and physical aspects of the music. Well, personally I don’t. So what’s left is trying to catch this kind of stuff live. And this is not apparently the easiest thing to do as, to my knowledge, the NJ and Disney performances are the only two scheduled so far in the US, or anywhere else by the way. Too bad but, hey that’s right, who can afford to go on tour with 100+ musicians and staff? So, NYC and LA people, know than you were damn lucky to have this happen next door!!!

Oups! I was about to forget that I initially wanted to make ‘Derek’ happy with a ‘complete roster’ of the performers. This is the official list for the NJ concert that apparently differs entirely from the west coast line-up. Never heard of any of these players before, except maybe Tyondai Braxton and Jessica Pavone.

Symphony No.13 (Halucination City) for 80 guitars, 20 basses and drums by Glenn Branca

1- March
2- Anthem
3- Drive
4- Vengeance

John Myers (conducting)
Wharton Tiers (drums)
Alto 1: Tyondai Braxton (leader), Austin Duggan, Craig Comstock, Joseph Robinson, Nick Millevoi
Alto 2: Jesse Gelaznik, Brad Bennet, Don Kramer, Joe Martin, Jodi Shapiro
Alto 3: Brendan Byrnes, Ellen Watkins (leader), Douglas Keith, Joewi Verhoeven, Ryan Martin
Alto 4: Mark Maloof, Cliff Dibelka, Gene Park, Jon Larusso, Chris Karwowski
Alto 5: Eric Hubel (leader), Brian Betancourt, Evelyne Buhler, Kevin Barry, Nathan Andreoli
Alto 6: Ted Nesseth, Bryan Bruchman, Geoff Gersh, Kevin Kim, Vikram Gajula
Alto7: Greg McMullen (leader), Byron Westbrook, Bob Strano, Jasmine Dreane Wagner, Matthew Paul
Alto 8: Will Ostrow, Graig Colorusso, Greg Peterson, Jim McGlinnen, Sarah Lipstate
Tenor 1: Reg Bloor (leader), Ben Miller, Marlowe Stern, Maurice Rickard, Charles Michelet
Tenor 2: Cris Afzal, James Sajor, Jeff Ciprioni, Mike Banfield, Tom Vigliotti, Christian Amigo
Tenor 3: Chris Woltmann, John Neilson, Marco Oppedisano (leader), Mwanza Dover, Walter Shih
Tenor 4: Eric Geigle, Joseph F. Fogarazzo, Anthony John Smith, Jeffray Zhang, Daniel Bloomberg
Tenor 5: Fred Scholl, Evans Wohlforth (leader), Heath Mayhew, Matt Hannon, Andrew Kaluzynski
Tenor 6: George Korein, Kyle Bittinger, Peter Duran, Scott Burton
Bari 1: Bryan Schmitz, Clay Franklin, Rich Holst, Valerie Opielski, Sam Matthews
Bari 2: Scott Moore, Michael Kresge, Maria Tessa Sciarrino, Matthew Taylor, Joshua Atkins
Bass 1: Alexis Scherl, Benjamin Reid, Jessica Pavone, Michael Seaton, Lloyd Mair (leader)
Bass 2: David Zaretsky, Ben Macri, Brady Sansone, Kevin Thaxton, Michael Lattis
Bass 3: Dan Hewins, David Newman, Martin Pavlinic, Mike Brown, Ryan Walsh (leader)
Bass 4: Danielle Choi, Gordon Meldrum, Kareem Rabie, Tom Shad, Tom Zlabinger

i thought about going to see this branca piece, but then decided to play a toy piano for an hour at home while listening to the jerky boys.

fyi re: redcat. even great peformers end up doing crap there. or at the very best semi-satisfying shit. john oswald, leo smith, the list could go on but you already know what i'm gonna say, and i'm just a grump about live music in LA anyway. i can't believe how many musicians i've gone to see there that i absoluetly love that all seem to get pulled down by the gravity of mediocrity that clouds the building. (only exceptions: electric ascension; david dunn (3/4 of it at least) at CEAIT this year.)

thank god we had the ICP last weekend (albeit on the small stage of a cuban restaurant with plates clanking all around (unless you just stood up and blocked all the side tables, which i was forced to do by attraction to the music)

I'm a grump!

Belated thanks to everyone for the Branca recs, and esp. to Jeff, Bill and Jean-Claude for the additional info on "Halucination City".

There is a pretty accurate list of who was involved I believe over at this blog:

http://www.losanjealous.com/2006/03/30/hallucination-city-attendance-sheet/

I played in both NJ and LA. Wonderful experiences. It is a pretty hard read but after playing it once, playing it a second time was definitely more enjoyable and in some ways understandable.

The sound in the Disney hall was rather impressive. I could hear so much of the interplay between the different sections.

The low price may also have been due to the relatively short show, but what could you program for the other "set?" Tony Conrad? Merzbow?

How about Will Oldham solo?

That was my idea for this festival called Crash I saw in London last week. Another elder drone-meister Niblock played loud and overlong -- just one guitarist on stage :) for two of the pieces, then no-one onstage for another -- amongst back-to-back performances including Rusell Haswell, Florian Hecker, Farmer's Manual, Kevin Drumm, etc. Some good stuff, but pretty hard-going without stops. I would have loved someone to just come sit on the stage with an acoustic guitar and sing me a song. With no sub-bass involved.

Half of the sets that night there was little, if anything, to look at on stage during the music. My £15 felt like a cheap rental of a massive soundsystem for the night, which was a pretty good bargain! But one advantage of 100 guitars versus 6 or 7 is the spectacle. Well, until you get bored of watching a bunch of people staring at their E-bows . . . what you want is 100 Haino impersonators!!!!

Cast by body size to indicate tenor haino, alto haino, etc...

M

I find it curious that Reductionism (TM) is accepted when it comes to sound at a gig, but not to sight. Would a Radu Malfatti concert be better or worse if he to go into a Michael Jackson-esque dance routine?

I find it curious that Reductionism (TM) is accepted when it comes to sound at a gig, but not to sight. Would a Radu Malfatti concert be better or worse if he to go into a Michael Jackson-esque dance routine?

And, more importantly, why do my posts always turn up twice (not that I've made many)?

Michael, i would be interesting how was Kevin Drumm's apperance?

I can't speak for anyone else's preferences, but fuck, malfatti would be a brazilian times cooler if he did some dance routines. But only if he did them VERY well, and only if he did them rarely.

Yeah, I'm with u there. Moonwalk + trombone = awesome!

The trick is that with the gig I mentioned specifically, nearly everyone's playing a laptop, or even playing from the house mixer at the back, no introductions, no address of the audience whatsoever. There's nothing to watch, and the only thing that separates the experience from that of pressing play on your home stereo is the size of the soundsystem.

I suppose the other thing you're paying for is the niceness of having all these guys on one bill. You may be able to buy a couple of their cds for £15, but not all the music on display.

I wouldn't say ANY sort of visual performance is always great. The entertainment of some guys wearing sunglasses with bazookas can turn to tedium after a while, as Branca's auto-orgasm may do for some people. But at least there's an attempt to show something to the audience. Can't people even try to say Hello?

And for the record, Reductionism (TM) was never so accepted from this here London-dweller.

I didn't see Drumm's set. I went out to take a break and spent the rest of the evening catching up with a friend from New York who I rarely see. My ears wuz tired by that point anyway!

M

P.S. I lived with a guy named Andrew Cox once . . . odd.

"The trick is that with the gig I mentioned specifically, nearly everyone's playing a laptop, or even playing from the house mixer at the back, no introductions, no address of the audience whatsoever. "

golly, you mean the music has to stand on its own? what an odd concept.

"There's nothing to watch, and the only thing that separates the experience from that of pressing play on your home stereo is the size of the soundsystem."

well, and the fact that at least to some extent it's likely being put together for that room/that crowd/that night.

very poor planning to skip the Drumm set, that looks like the main attraction. basically, it looks like you went to this night expecting something different from what it was. I'd blame yourself, not the musicians.

absolutely dripping response, thanks!

I recognise that music is the key feature of a concert, but there's some inherent differences between a concert and the act of listening to a cd at home. Suppose even if each musician recorded a special set on disc and mailed it to the organisers, who advertised an event as an 'exclusive listening session to pre-recorded material', I doubt it would have the same draw as what was actually billed as 'numerous participants collaborate extensively within a totally unprecedented and severely overheated lineup.'

Yeah, for sure some or most of the musicians involved aren't interested in providing anything of visual interest, and I wasn't expecting Michael Jackson [though again . . . :)], but the lack of musicians' engagement with, or even recognition of the audience who have come to see them gets magnified by the overall organisation of the event, which in this case fostered very little connection with the audience. When there were performers with activity-based instrumentation, like Toshio Kajiwara and Andriana Sa, they were placed so far back amongst the equipment of the 'main attractions' that you couldn't really see what what going on.
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the fact that at least to some extent it's likely being put together for that room/that crowd/that night.

That Room: It didn't seem that the ICA was chosen because its stage provides the perfect means for presenting the night's artists. I reckon more it was chosen because it's big enough, central enough and hip enough to hopefully draw enough people. All other related events in this fest were held in an unrelated venue on the other side of town.

That crowd: Maybe the organisers did say to themselves 'you know, this crowd doesn't care if anyone welcomes them or publicly shows any appreciation for their attendance of this event.' Perhaps I'm not 'that crowd'.

That night: yes, Friday night. Good night to get the punters in. Might be dead if we do it on a Tuesday.
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You've got to admit, Jon, that the reason you go to see someone in concert is a little different from buying his/her CD and playing it at home, yes? If it's purely for the bigger sound system, that's fine. Niblock's second piece sonically validated the entry for me, actually. But I'd get sick really fast of going to such personally disconnected shows often.

I'm not suggesting Phill Niblock get out and breakdance next time [then again . . .]; I'm just suggesting that someone on this particular night could have improved things by appreciating our presence as much as we appreciated their involvement, which is one reason why I was happy to speak with my friend who did.

My suggestion in relation to Branca is that I agree that having 100 guitars can be justified sonically, and would add it has the extra benefit of something to look at what it's happening. And if Branca were up front freaking out, for all its nuisance, it would at least give some evidence of someone trying.

It was not part of my 'plan' to miss Drumm, though I don't feel sad for missing it. I do feel sad I missed Jason Kahn, but it wasn't part of my plan for the organisers to put him on at 5pm, while I was still at work. Wrong crowd, I guess.

M

you're confusing a few things here, Michael. I have no doubts that the event was run less than optimally, and it's sad that you felt that the musicians didn't "appreciate your presence" (did you get slapped by one of them after saying hello? what does this mean?), but I still have issues with your basic point.

personally, the live set of music I enjoyed the most of any I saw last year was the Pita/Lasse Marhaug dual laptop set at No Fun. there was no stage presence, just two guys staring at their laptops, didn't matter. obviously there can be dull laptop sets (probably well over 95 percent of them), but it's hardly a universal. I just think you're applying the wrong criteria, like someone walking into Freedom of the City and wondering why there aren't any songs.

also, wasn't Aaron Dilloway playing the set with Drumm, in trio with John Wiese? shame you missed that one, Dilloway is an amazing performer. and the music's usually pretty good also. :)

Funny how discussions can drift sometimes… I’ll back Michael up on what he said about the idea of spectacle in live gigs. Not what he said about acknowledging the presence of the audience, which is different (and I’m not sure I get your point on that man…).

Yes this is true when I go out to listen to music it’s not like putting a CD in my player at home, preparing myself for a well-anticipated dedicated relaxed sound experience (at best) or just to cover the sound of the vacuum-cleaner (most typical)… No.

What I hope for is a higher level of distraction for my miserable/bored/tired mind, something that stimulates different areas of my brain, not only my auditory nerve. And it could be many things: by distraction I don’t necessarily mean story-telling, acrobatics, pyrotechnics, scarification or any other special effect. Nope. I tend to think that all elements that surround the music performance itself have their importance and greatly contribute to the listening experience. Could be the venue, your psychological and/or physical state, the initial expectations you had for a particular concert, the tall guy right in front of you who prevents you from seeing anything, the (presence or absence of) people on the stage and whether you know them or not, sometimes your blood alcohol content and… yeah right… the way musicians may interact with their audience. Usually all of the above (and this is not a comprehensive list).

So I can see why poor Michael gets tired watching immobile laptopers all night. Though I’m sure someone else could see stasis of some performers as a radical posture supporting their act… OK, it’s fine with me too. All I’m saying is, consciously or not, you can’t help integrate external elements to the music you’re listening to. This is true at home but this becomes even more relevant in a less familiar environment. Don’t you think that, independently of the music “quality” per se, part of the thrill can come from going for the first time to some legendary club you always craved to go to or even more when discovering an unsuspected music “hole in the wall” in the city you thought you knew so well? The same of course works when checking out for the first time you favorite music heroes or just some random act you never heard before and that kicks the shit out of you. Don’t you also think the way performers can surprise you (imagine Phill Niblock doing country music or Branca going reggae…) and make a gig “special” give you the immensely satisfying impression that this was a one-time only (truly or not) and he he he he you were there? Obviously the surprise is more likely to happen when it comes to improvised music. And I could go on and on. The message is: appreciation of music depends on way too many things and, personally, anything that can make a performance “unique”, incidental or not, I’ll take it!

Among other things, I remember having fun at a Flying Luttenbachers gig mostly because I was in the audience not far from Glenn Branca (to go back to him again) who was sooooo excited, swinging his head and shouting things like a death-metal kid all along! Really cool! The show of Charles Gayle I remember the most is one when he basically stopped playing because he spotted someone who was recording his gig and started a half hour-long lecture about illegal recordings and the damage they do to musicians. He didn’t go back playing afterwards. Totally awkward but impromptu and sincere! In retrospect, those short instants of reality probably helped me put the music in a different perspective and were definitively part of the live gig enjoyment. So I truly have sympathy with those who feel deprived when they feel they can’t perceive the “extra-musical” components of a live music event and can’t have their mind spending time exploring them because there’s nothing much to stimulate that. And again this has nothing to do with the subjective quality of music.

"personally, the live set of music I enjoyed the most of any I saw last year was the Pita/Lasse Marhaug dual laptop set at No Fun"

I can just see you there now Abbey, Slayer written in biro on the back of your ironic sleeveless demin jacket. Really, though, the No Fun Fest is a very different proposition from what was likely a funded event at the ICA. My guess is that Michael would have been happy- or at least happier- if the performers had simply deigned to acknowledge/ address the audience, and I feel the same way. It doesn't take much, and it fosters a more communal experience. Perhaps you find such notions embarrassing and/or old fashioned. However some of us still like a little generosity of spirit to our cultural choices.

'Generosity of spirit': I like that term.

And very well said, Jean-Claude. I think it's a good point to say 'all night', as I think that was a big part of it, part of why I joked about sticking Will Oldham in the bill. It was a magnified situation of a particular problem, because it was seemingly endless for a 5pm-midnight show. I wouldn't have noticed so much had it been broken up with sets of a different nature, for example.

The 'integration of external elements' is such a key thing. A lot of people putting together shows often forget about this, and it can totally effect your chances of enjoying a set. I hate the Red Rose in London, for example. It would take a set of enourmous quality to get me into it, whereas in more pleasant surroundings I'd feel more prepared to enjoy things. If I had to put on a show there, I'd be forced to buy loads of lights and plants to try to change it's appearance from that of a dank hole.

I guess that's part of what I'm talking about with audience recognition. An environment in which no one appears to welcome the audience to their night, thank them for coming, no publicly visible acknowledgement that there IS an audience out there, can be an environment that is unpleasant and detached. Some might argue that it's 'just the music-no bullshit'. Fine. For me it borders on consumerism, like food coming along on a conveyer belt. The experience for me almost becomes passive. If the music comes on with no announcement, nothing on stage, hardly any pause after the previous set, I get the feeling that my prescence maybe doesn't matter. This music could keep happening even if the room were empty.

I think it would be sad to assume that concerts of laptop or minimal music must be inherently personality-less, and expect that, as one assumes Freedom of the City is inherently song-less. The LMC generally does a good job of making a friendly prescence at their shows and festivals even if the musicians involved are of the heads-down/laptop nature. It can just take someone getting on a mic between acts to introduce or say hello. My friend Olivier does this really well at his organised shows, and makes things feel fun (even if he hates getting up in front of people!). I'm sure the musicians/organisers at Crash were glad people came to the show, but how am I supposed to know that if no one even says 'Thanks'? How are the musicians supposed to know we liked their set if we don't clap?

Anyway, we'll see what happens tonight: LMC-organised Keith Rowe/ Sean Meehan/ Matt Davis solos at a nice gallery space. Should suit things well.

M

The question of how 'polite' musicians are to their audience is obviously different to how animated they are whilst playing. i guess if you feel a musician is being impolite or unfriendly then you may decide not to go and see them again. An odd concept all the same and not something I would personally worry myself over.

I must say though that if you go to a show featuring laptop musicians surely you know what you're likely to be getting?
I'm not sure what else could be expected of a laptopper other than sitting behind their machine looking at the screen, thats the nature of the instrument. Of course its not as visually exciting as other forms of music, but how could it be? and more to the point why should it be?

If you need a 'higher level of distraction' don't go to laptop concerts. At the end of the day thats the only option, you can't change the basic nature of the instrument. Complaining about it is like describing how much you dislike apricot yoghurt. if you don't like it go buy raspeberry next time!

I didn't attend this show as like Michael I was at work when it began and instead I chose to go and see John Tilbury play Feldman across town. A very beautiful concert.
Now I come to think of it though I watched a man sit behind his instrument, lift the lid and then not do very much. Didn't bother me, but then it rarely does.

I think you're missing the main thrust of my point, Richard. Yourself and Jon seem to be hung on the idea that I am blaming musicians for their instrument. I know a laptop musician is as likely to dance on stage as Evan Parker is to tell jokes while circular breathing. I am not a crank who just can't accept the nature of laptop music.

Perhaps some of my early examples mentioned the musicians too much, but I hoped my last statement emphasized my focus on the experience of the event as a whole. I'm not seeking 'distraction', just a way of having the event acknowledge the audience exists. This becomes all the more crucial if your performers aren't displaying much awareness of being in the same room with you.

Yes, a laptop musician isn't going to do much. But he can wave hello before he starts. If he doesn't want to, okay fine, he's got other things to concentrate on maybe. But the event organisers I expect are concentrating on making this a nice event for people, which for me is not simply making sure the sound system works. It also involves making the performance space pleasant to be in, giving the audience some recognition for bothering to turn up, etc. That's all I'm saying really. It's the little things that can be enough to make an event somehow different from listening to a cd through a big soundsystem.

M

OK, this makes perfect sense thanks, though I was addressing Jean-Claude's post as much as yours Michael.

Last night three of us made an eight hour round trip to see Keith Rowe and others in Bolton for the opening of the Debris Fields exhibition and accompanying concert. There he came out of the soundcheck to sit and talk with us and later bought us a drink to say thanks for making the journey. I guess thats an extreme example of the opposite end of the musician/audience spectrum.

Sorry about getting so far off the topic of this thread, but how were those Rowe shows you guys went to?