Inviting indeed! How come you're not going to the Vision, Derek? I'm buying my plane tickets today or tomorrow at the most. Oh and a small correction, Borah Bergman was born on Brooklyn...

http://www.blacksaint.com/bios/bbergman.html

Hi Gerardo,

There’s an outside chance I might be able to make a couple days, but most likely I’ll be reading about it from the sidelines. The chief reason is time. My mom retires from her job in June & I’m flying out to Tucson to attend all the hoopla surrounding her much-earned switch to a life of leisure. Have you been to past Fests? I’ve probably passed you in the aisles.

Head hung low on the Bergman snafu, thanks for the correction :)

Nice to read about your mom's retiring from her job. My mom retired from hers (elementary school principal, some 28 years at it) a couple of years ago and it was a big celebration. Maybe you can make a special Cd-mix for her!
And this will (hopefully) be my first time in both NYC and the Vision fest. Extremely looking forward to it. Hope that you can make it (the Vision and the JC beer-bash) for at least a couple of days, man.

Even though I'm just not interested in the Ware Quartet much at this point, it was an important influence in my development as a listener. At one point in the mid-late-90s, they were the cat's pjs to my ears, but it's also true they quartet jumped the shark quite a while ago.

The last time I saw 'em at the Fest they were kinda disappointing - Shipp played electric keyboard that night. I hope they limit themselves to acoustic instruments this time, and blast the roof off one last time.

Lotta good things at this year's Fest - I'm planning to attend more than one night, for the first time in a few years.

I've never been all *that* into them (or him), but they are a sort of institution...

It would be nice to see Rutherford at the Vision Mess, though!

Thanks, Gerardo. Cool to learn of your mom’s admirable tenure in public education. Mine earned the brass ring after a 14-year post as a Vice President at the University of Arizona. My dad, who said sayonara to the working world a few years ago, can hardly wait for June to come. Not sure about the mix though, she’d prefer lots of Dave Koz, Najee and Fourplay on it, which I’m not prepared to provide :)

Back to Ware, I actually enjoyed Corridors & Parallels (w/ Shipp on synths), but can understand the complaints surrounding the switch.

“Vision Mess”

Careful Cliff, you’re likely to attract some ire.

DSWQ was among my early favorites when I was first exposed to creative improvised jazz, but I admit, Ware's sound has grown a bit stale.

However, one of my favorite recent releases is the Trio Plays Ware on splasch. Ware's compositions benefit from the quieter, more subtle interpretations.

agree fully, OZ, if there is any one combo you can say jumped the shark. I'd like to attend that show, though, and plenty of the others. That's one of the better schedules Vision's had in years.

I LOVE Corridors and Parallels. But I seem to be in the minority..

Not that Suisie is not a great drummer, but It is really strange and interesting how huge of an impact her leaving not only the DSWQ, but that whole scene was.
Unfortnately, I think at least musically, both sides are worse for it.

"I LOVE Corridors and Parallels. But I seem to be in the minority.."

Actually, I dig that one a lot. It was a breath of relatively fresher air after the staleness of the last couple lf Columbia releases. Had they pursued that direction further, they might have extended their creative life a bit.

Can't stand Ware (saw him live a year or so ago - pathetic; they played right after Happy Apple Trio who were just on a totally different level as far as creativity is concerned). But "Corridors and Parallels" I like.

Can't stand Ware (saw him live a year or so ago - pathetic; they played right after Happy Apple Trio who were just on a totally different level as far as creativity is concerned).

Happy Apple?!?!? Are you serious? Not to be a contrarian jerk, but those guys suck.

To be fair: the Bad Plus conection and the Blue Series conection are equally unfogivable.

the blue series had as strong a start as it did a fucking fizzle.

Agreed. The early BS Shipps, the first two Spring Heel Jacks and especially Maneri's Sustain are magnificent. What went wrong? Answer (one of several answers): once more jazz tried to get hip by bringing in da rappers. It fucked up Steve Coleman in the mid 90s, and it fucked up The Blue Series.

"the blue series had as strong a start as it did a fucking fizzle."
- Did it? I can't stand any of outside the W.P. violin trio & the Vison disc. William is one of my biggest early influences as a bass payer, too. Maybe that is why that label pisses me off so much. I could not get those cds back to amoeba fast enough (I was actually there before they opened the day after I bought "Raining onthe moon" I have never been more depressed by a cd purchase in my life).
I just put on that first duo of Parker and Shipp w/"summertime" in the middle - that stuff was so incredible. A few of the Hatology projects came near, none of the Blue Series did.

I just remember the initial and sophomore releases, Painter's Spring (easily one of Parker's more appetizing, IMO) and Mat Maneri's killer BLUE DECCO being released almost on top of one another, and all the promise and high hopes those brought to the series, which was more of an idea at the time than a project, it seemed. Tim Berne's SHELL GAME can't be counted out, either.

I forgot "Painter's Spring" that is a good one. I love Daniel Carter's playing, he seems to always be interesting, there is a great duo with Reuben Radding and a really fine quartet with Kowald, Laurence Cook and Jonathan Lamaster . Berne is a real can of worms for me - I actually stopped writing music for good after hearing one of his records!

I'm not sure how this conversation changed to the Blue Series, but I concur with the general disappointment.

I don't consider myself an obscurity fetishist, but in this case I think it's true that as the sub-label became more popular and well-known the release started becoming more crappy.

Sidenote. I think Dan said only the first two SHJ were good. Actually, my favorite is the third one "SHJ Live". The next one was 'The Sweetness of the Water' was forgettable and boring, though.

I like the three SHJ studio discs, and never listen to the live one. I like almost all the Matt Shipp discs quite a bit; the only one I find disappointing is Nu Bop, because its ideas are explored much more thoroughly and satisfyingly on Equilibrium and Harmony and Abyss. I like both Mat Maneri discs, all the Parker discs (though the piano trio one is a little lcd), and even the Meat Beat Manifesto thing has its moments. The real disappointment for me, in terms of unfulfilled potential, was the DJ Spooky/Dave Lombardo confab.

Could any light be shed on why Susie left that scene?

The first time I had a chance to see William parker play was with that trio w/ Susie and Assif in the mid 90s, and while I was prepared to be blown away by him, it was her that did it. I've never understood what happened.

Also, re: blue series. I'm not familiar with their early releases, but I've been cracking this thing w/ Beans using Parker and Drake tracks for a STN review, and it's a gonna get SLAMMED. Pitiful use of amazing resources. Best thing about it is that Beans recognizes that he should only rap on half the tracks (of course he finds ways to blemish the others w/ bad synthy sounds) I thought the guy was supposed to represent "intellectual" hiphop or something - no.

Abstain from Beans.

I've never been a fan of this group, but the apparently universal praise herein for "Corridors" has me ALMOST willing to risk another few bucks.

Nah.

Knowing your tastes (well, sort of..) I'd advise you to steer clear, Walt, old bean ;-)

quothe the walto: "I've never been a fan of this group, but the apparently universal praise herein for "Corridors" has me ALMOST willing to risk another few bucks."

After striking out with that Moondoc joint a few years ago, I dare not insist on any rec unless the words 'Fell' or 'Leandre' are in there.

I just listened to one-minute clips of each tune, and, as some here will likely expect from me, from what I heard, I liked Ware and Brown very much, I liked Parker pretty much, and I didn't care for Shipp at all.

But let me get defensive about this "bias" of mine for a second. FWIW, I think it's pretty common for X-players to be both more critical of and more enthusiastic about other X-players. When you hear something somebody's doing that you believe (rightly or wrongly) you could do better, you're probably going to be more persnickity than when you hear somebody playing some instrument of which you have no intimate knowledge. So, it's not only that I usually don't care for the substance of what Shipp is doing, it's also the case that his playing almost always sounds a little awkward to me. I can of course tell that Parker sometimes plays out of tune or gets a little rhythmically kerfluffled occasionally, but it doesn't bother me--partly because I think he often contributes musical material that moves me, but also probably because, for all I know, it's really hard to accomplish perfectly what he's apparently shooting for on bass.

I do think, though, that my keyboard playing may also tend to make me especially impressed by certain players' skills. So, while I'm tough on, say, Andrea Parkins (not because I don't like her stuff--I very much do--but because she so often plays almost exactly what I at least think I'd be playing in similar circumstances), I can also be completely blown away by people (like Taylor, Tilbury or Taborn) who can both surprise me with ideas that move me and have impressive technical skills--at least in some aspect of their playing.

But maybe it's just because all their names start with "T." (M. Tournemire is another, older example.) This is a magic letter for pianists and organists, apparently. This makes it distinctly possible that if Sylvie C changed her last name to 'Towelette' or something my current ho-hums would change to ooh-la-las....)

I used to go see the Ware Quartet a lot back in the day. Mostly before Susie joined...drummers were Marc Edwards and then Whit Dickey...I really loved the gigs until there was this point where their approach became pretty codified and dare I say, predictable. I kinda stopped paying attention then. I did see a few amazing duo gigs in that period by Parker & Shipp, especially one in Seattle at the OK Hotel where I really did think that William's bass was going to just come apart and explode or something.

Parker was a huge inspiration to me in those days. I saw him do countless gigs in little divey holes like ABC No Rio and Collective Unconscious with folks like Marco Eneidi or Karen Borca or Rob Brown, Bobby Zankel...really stellar free jazz...life-changing events...not my bag these days, but I can never forget.

I'd add Tatum, Tapscott, Tippett and Twardzik..

I'd add Thomas Wright Waller

I though it is precisely Shipp who makes "Corridors and Parallels".
And I found Shipp's recent solo ("One") on Thirsty Ear truly impressive - and I've never been a fan of his, to put it mildly.

I am serious about Happy Apple - I am quite a fan. And they have amazing energy live.

"it is precisely Shipp who makes "Corridors and Parallels".
Yes! So why do the recent Blue Series things sound so clunky in comparison? Could it be the "slammin' hip hop beats"? (i.e. slam the bloody music into the ground) Not that I'm in a position to answer my own question - I got rid of my copies ages ago.

Wow Tippett and Tatum, too! YES!

S Ware hasn't been the same since Susie left. I would have liked to see S Ware bring on Hamid Drake instead of Brown. Hopefully, S Ware won't fall victim to the David Murray syndrome and become a derivative of himself. I fear the V5 could be the next S Ware Quartet because of expectations, which are a cancer.

Not that I fully disagree with everything Sanchez says above... I'd just insert different names in the places of "Hamid Drake", "David Murray", and "the V5". Really shitty examples to make your point, IMO.