I talked with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad last week and he says this is also a fabrication of history.

I guess this brings up the old question about whether things like racism obtain longevity through centuries-old grudges and settlements. Certainly the Herero could use reparations. And certainly there are generations of Herero who heard the stories first-hand. It's a living thing but what really comes out of it were reparations to be paid? Do those affected cease to have issue? Is it purely money? Or are reparations symbolic of something else? As a descendant of anglo conquest and barbarism I'm curious.

It's funny, but people tend to scoff whenever reparations are discussed for Africans, while meanwhile the German government has already paid out billions in reparations to the families of victims of the Holocaust.

Reparations is/are a waste of time. They don't bring back the dead, and that includes the folks actually responsible for the initial crime(s), who lived and died unpunished for whatever they're accused of having done. All they do is foster resentment in later generations - the young descendants of the victims are forced to re-examine their view of the people in the society around them, and the young descendants of the aggressors wind up hating the people they're now paying reparations to, thus setting the stage for further conflict down the line. And where does the chain end? Should Israelis, paid reparations for the Holocaust, forward the money on to Palestinians cruelly treated by the Israeli government? If reparations are paid to an African government whose people were harvested as slaves, should that government in turn pay the money to whoever it massacred in the latest round of African tribal warfare?

I tend to agree that reparations are a waste of time, mainly because I think that, in the case of Africa, there isn't a figure that could match the loss of development opportunity experienced by Africans as a result of the slave trade and, more importantly, colonialism. Unless Europe and North America are willing to empty most of their bank accounts, any figure actually distributed will be a paltry sum compared to the value of what was taken away.

My question has to do with why some think it reasonable to dole out money to Jews for the Holocaust, but not to Herero, to take one example.

>My question has to do with why some think it reasonable to dole out money to Jews for the Holocaust, but not to Herero, to take one example.

Ask them. My guess is any answer other than "I'm gettin' mine while the guiltin's good" is a lie.

I think it's entirely wrong-headed to get in this fool's game of comparing historical tragedies as if they were competitions, and then making glib comments that feed into enduringly ugly perceptions.

Clearly David and Phil know that the International Zionist Conspiracy are behind the reparations paid by Germany, and clearly what happened to European Jewry is the equivalent of the destruction of the Herero and the situation and Palestine. It's that simple, no?

Time to read Pynchon's V again, methinks.

Could it be that it's harder to get a handle on the African slave reparations? I.e., calculating the damages and figuring out who should pay?

Here's some stuff regarding Holocaust reparations from the net:

Nazi-looted gold. The issue of Nazi looted gold has been addressed in several fora. In 1998, the Trilateral Gold Commission (TGC) completed its half-century-long task of returning to European states occupied by Germany during the war the hundreds of tons of Nazi-looted gold captured in Germany in 1945. In recognition that some of this gold may have been taken from Holocaust victims, the TGC in 1997 established a fund for needy Holocaust persecutees. Many of the states that received gold in the final (1998) TGC tranche contributed some or all of the proceeds to this fund. The TGC and the fund it established are discussed in the sections of this report that deal with the London Gold Conference and the Holocaust Victims Redress Act. Although the TGC has closed its books, other Nazi gold issues remain. A number of neutral states bought and sold gold from Germany during the war, including: Argentina, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, and Turkey. Questions have been raised as to whether some of this gold may have been looted gold, including gold taken from Holocaust victims. For the most part, these questions have not been fully resolved and are dealt with separately by each of the states. These issues are addressed in the relevant country surveys in this report.

Swiss bank accounts. The issue of recovery of Holocaust victims' and survivors' bank deposits from Swiss banks has received a great deal of attention in recent years. In response to class-action lawsuits and international political and economic pressure, several major Swiss banks agreed to a $1.25 billion settlement, details of which are being worked out by a U.S. Federal Court. An international commission headed by Paul Volker, former Chairman of the U.S. Federal Reserve, is examining other Holocaust-era claims against Swiss banks. There is a section in this report on Swiss bank accounts.

Insurance policies. During the war, German authorities systematically confiscated the insurance policies of Holocaust victims. After the war, many insurance claims by heirs of Holocaust victims were not paid by European insurance companies for various reasons. In many other cases, there were no survivors or heirs to file claims on Holocaust victims' policies. Some of Germany's post-war reparations payments to Holocaust victims and heirs and to the state of Israel were related to confiscated insurance policies. But many claims remain. At this time (late 1999), negotiations between insurance claimants and Jewish organizations on one side, and a group of European insurance companies on the other, are on-going. In addition, an International Commission on Holocaust-Era Insurance Claims was established in October 1998. This Commission, chaired by former Secretary of State Lawrence Eagleburger, is working with all major parties to resolve claims. Holocaust-era insurance claims are discussed in a separate section of this report and also in the section on the Washington Conference on Holocaust-Era Assets.

Looted art. Much of the wartime Nazi-looted art was returned to the countries of origin after the war's end. But thousands of art works stolen from Holocaust victims were not returned to the rightful owners or their heirs. Many of these are believed to be in private and state-owned museums around the world and in government repositories. There has been a good deal of discussion but relatively little progress in recent years on restitution of Holocaust-era looted art. Looted art is addressed in this report in the sections on the Washington Conference on Holocaust-Era Assets and in the country surveys.

Communal property. A great deal of Jewish communal property, religious and secular, was confiscated during the Holocaust and nationalized after the war by communist regimes in Central and Eastern Europe. Restitution of and compensation for confiscated communal property began to be addressed systematically in the 1990s, after the dissolution of the communist regimes. Restitution and compensation is handled by the individual governments. Results vary widely from country to country. The subject of communal property restitution/compensation is addressed in this report in the sections on the Washington Conference on Holocaust-Era Assets and in the country surveys.

German reparations payments. The government of the Federal Republic of Germany** has made, and continues to make, very substantial reparation payments to Holocaust survivors, heirs, and to the state of Israel. During the Cold War, the communist regimes in Central and Eastern Europe prevented Holocaust survivors and heirs from receiving such payments. In many cases, German deadlines for claims expired. In the 1990s, after the dissolution of many communist regimes, renewed German reparations payments were negotiated between the German government, Central and East European governments, and Jewish organizations. Questions remain about the size and duration of these renewed payments. German reparation payments, from the post-war period to the present, are addressed in this report in the German country survey.

I think it's entirely wrong-headed to get in this fool's game of comparing historical tragedies as if they were competitions, and then making glib comments that feed into enduringly ugly perceptions.

I'm not sure where that's happened in this thread, Adam. What I was comparing was not the Herero genocide to the Holocaust, but rather the German response to the two. I think the answer is rather obvious, and it has nothing to do with anti-Semitic conspiracies or anything else. There are only 100,000 Herero on the face of the planet, and they mostly live in Namibia and Botswana, two countries that mean little to nothing to the West. In addition, the scale of the genocide in Namibia was much smaller than the Jewish Holocaust, and much more remote, as the Holocaust happened in Germany's backyard and the Herero genocide happened many thousands of miles away, on another continent. Germany lost its colony in Namibia in 1915, so what happened from 1904 to 1907 is very remote from the present day in many ways.

But still, it happened. I don't think very many people even know that it happened.

Clearly, an answer to your musings about why the Jews get reperations and why the Herero didn't, has to do with the time and circumstances. The crimes of the Holocaust could be addressed soon after it had occurred, with a fair amount of documentation, and done so by a country that was being remade into a liberal democracy.

It`s all the matter of time and distance that Herero`s did not claim reparation as I understand but a crime is a crime as long as it been judge who the guity party is.And as you all know by the time who of the herero`s were educated and having source to do that.Now that everybody is aware what happen and the Jew`s were paid "I mean why not the poor herero`s".German goverment can pay herero and the money can be utilized to uplift poverty in herero community and assist those who were decented.