"An idiotic idea, a stunt, or a piece of brilliance? "

I'm not sure I'd vote for any of those. I'd be curious to hear from Ed what his rationale behind doing this was, and how it's going so far, I believe he announced it a few months ago.

This project fits my basic take on art: water seeks its own level.

"I'd be curious to hear from Ed what his rationale behind doing this was, and how it's going so far, I believe he announced it a few months ago."

The rationale was a lot of the stuff I said in that little blurb there, though perhaps if I really tried I could make more sense than that. I like the idea of unusual forums like this, and I was inspired by things like RRRecords' long-running Recycled Music series and especially Widnoon's phenomenal Personalized Cassette Project, as well as some remarks by a friend. I envisioned this project as something that would create odd little communications between individual musicians and listeners. I'd wager that very few people who have ordered these discs from me knew who most of the artists were beforehand, and a few people have told me to just randomly pick whichever discs I wanted to send. That, to me, is totally the spirit this was done in and the type of behavior I wanted to encourage -- that blind experimentation and willingness to discover weird new things.

I'm pretty happy with things on that end, you'd have to check in with some listeners to see how happy they are -- Nirav, you around? -- but so far I've released 25 releases in this series, all but 4 of which are gone. I'm slowly building up a second set of (probably) 25 more albums, which will come out whenever I get enough to release. I can't forsee doing this for very long -- it's a lot of work for, unsurprising, no reward -- but I'd like to do at least 2 or 3 more sets before I call it quits, otherwise I'll feel like the project was a failure if it only managed to reach a small handful of listeners.

Ed--thanks for the note: I guess what puzzles me is that surely if you want to be "egalitarian" & "shortcircuit the collector impulse" then the obvious thing is just to put the releases online as freely downloadable audio files? Why the stress on an exclusive relationship between musician & listener (i.e. there's only an audience of one)?

Jon--yes this project was started a few months back, but I only got notice of it via a poetry magazine I received recently, the sublimely titled He's Asked For Size Ten Arial On This One & It Goes Over The Edge A Bit But If It's Size Ten Arial He Wants It's Size Ten Arial He's Getting Issue One.

wow, that title is amazing, too funny...

I love this idea. In fact im going to send a cd to mr. howard on monday. reminds me a tiny bit of idea i had a while back to post about some cds i made and give them free to anyone who sent me a cdr.

"I guess what puzzles me is that surely if you want to be "egalitarian" & "shortcircuit the collector impulse" then the obvious thing is just to put the releases online as freely downloadable audio files? Why the stress on an exclusive relationship between musician & listener (i.e. there's only an audience of one)?"

You're right, of course, but I didn't want to do just another net label -- besides the fact that I'm not a big fan of releases available only in downloadable format and my continuing attachment to the physical artifact, it would be an incredible use of bandwidth and webspace to maintain a large and perpetually growing archive of any MP3 that is sent to me. At some point, I'm sure, if I had gone that way, funds would have forced me to drop the release-everything aspect of the project. I also do feel that people are more likely to become interested in a project like Trash Aesthetic than in a big archive of MP3s by artists they've never heard of -- many of which, I'm sure, would go entirely un-downloaded. I wanted Trash Aesthetic as it exists to be a humble way for artists to reach an audience, even an audience of one. It's certainly not the best way for unknown artists to get exposure, but then I really didn't didn't intend it to be that at all.

Anyway, thanks for the interest, I'm glad people have at least heard about this project. John, looking forward to hearing what you send me -- and anyone else who reads this, please send in stuff as well; this project can't continue without a steady flow of recordings coming in.

Ed: "...and my continuing attachment to the physical artifact..."

(Here I go taking the bait again..) This is the point I think merits further discussion. What do these physical objects have to do with appreciation of music, exactly? Does having a cd in the hand somehow append more value or meaning to the experience (as opposed to, in this instance, a simple download, which affords what would seem to be the main object of desire, i.e., a repeat or two of the listening experience)?

Hmmm. Well that little quote about the "physical object" was really just an aside pertaining to me -- I recognize that not everyone feels the same way about physical media as I do. I think I already made more relevant explanations of why I felt MP3s weren't the way to go:

"It would be an incredible use of bandwidth and webspace to maintain a large and perpetually growing archive of any MP3 that is sent to me... I also do feel that people are more likely to become interested in a project like Trash Aesthetic than in a big archive of MP3s by artists they've never heard of -- many of which, I'm sure, would go entirely un-downloaded."

I also do think there's some value in the physical artifact, even if it's entirely subjective and nothing I could really explain. And maybe that's even the "collector impulse" speaking, but I don't think so: packaging and visuals have played a part in music since the advent of records, and I don't think eliminating the physical object entirely from music distribution is really the answer to anything.

I think this is an awesome idea. Though I don't know about subverting any collectors' mentalities. I think that impossible.

Jared

Ed I personally share your love of physical media. I think the collector impulse is one big reason why I like to hold a physical object in my hands and I happily hold my hands up to that charge, but there are other reasons too.

My love of music is almost equalled by my love of visual art and design. There once was a time when every musical release came accompanied with a twelve inch square sleeve that provided an opportunity to create something that augmented the whole package. Most often that opportunity was wasted but every now and again it worked a treat.

Obviously the way something is packaged makes absolutely no difference to the way it sounds, the music is not changed in any way, but in my opinion the audio and visual arts can compliment each other and add something MORE. Yes the music is the main object of desire, but why not present it in a beautiful or thought provoking way anyway?

The last few years have seen the return of creative packaging to music after the shock of having the canvas reduced from a twelve inch record sleeve to a CD inlay card. My favourite recent example is Keith Berry's 'The ear that was sold to a fish' released recently on Crouton. A CD packed in a kraft box full of Indian Blue Smalley leaves. It not only looks amazing but it is the best smelling CD I have ever known! The mucic will always matter the most to me, but the experience of taking that disc from its packaging, and reading the enclosed poetry whilst it plays for me at least enhances the whole listening experience.

I also think that the fact it remains quite a task to produce a physical CD is a good thing for our music. The advent of CDRs has made it possible for anyone of even a meagre income to get their music out there, which is clearly a very positive step.
The one downfall of the CDR though is that there is far too much music out there now. As a listener it is increasingly difficult to hear everything you want to hear, even with the aid of mp3 filesharing.
The task of getting CDs or CDRs made up, sleeves produced and put together still creates a level of quality control. A musician/label will take some time choosing what to release (unless of course its Trash Aesthetics!) and the task of sorting the wheat from the chaff is already begun for the consumer. If we ever moved entirely over to mp3 publishing surely there will just be so much music out there we won't know where to begin? Just a thought.

Richard: I can assure you (having done quite a few CDR review columns for Cadence) that there is close to no quality control associated with CDRs. You'd get the odd good thing that way, but we're talking about 1 out of every 10 CDRs I'd receive.

The other problem with CDRs is their impermanence: sometimes I've had them start skipping within months of receipt.

"Richard: I can assure you (having done quite a few CDR review columns for Cadence) that there is close to no quality control associated with CDRs. You'd get the odd good thing that way, but we're talking about 1 out of every 10 CDRs I'd receive."

This may be very true of individual musicians burning CDRs to send as demos, but there are a pretty significant number of consistently great CDR labels out there, and I'm sure most of them engage in as much quality control as a "proper" CD label. In my mind, CDR is an imperfect medium, mainly for the reasons you mentioned about deterioration, but I'm glad it's around because for the moment it really has made music distribution far more egalitarian.

Richard, I pretty much agree with you about everything you said there, but I don't think your comments about packaging really reflect the collector impulse. When I wrote that part of the Trash Aesthetic statement, I really was simply talking about the recent excesses of eBay resale on limited CDR releases -- the collector impulse cares not about the music or packaging, really, but about the limited nature of an object and its potential value on a marketplace, whether they intend to sell it or just use it for the "prestige" of ownership. So in that respect, I guess TAR is an experiment to see if you can make something so limited and obscure (and impossible to collect a full set) that it actually cycles around to have NO collector appeal.

Ed you got to that just ahead of me.

I can honestly say (and I mean this I'm not just being argumentative) that over the last year at least I have probably enjoyed almost as many CDR releases as I have standard issues. there are some excellent CDR only labels out there, Absurd and L'innomable are the two that spring most immediately to mind.

I don't know for sure but I doubt that some of the great music on these labels would have happened before the advent of CDR.

I imagine my better experience with these things though is probably because I am able to be selective about my purchasing... If I had to wade through piles of stuff submitted for review I would probably form a similar view on the subject.
You say about 10% of CDRs sent are worth hearing Nate, I am interested in knowing what the percentage is for regular discs sent to you?

I have also heard several people say things about the impermanence of CDRs in the past, but I can honestly (and I mean honestly) say that over the five years or so I've been buying them I can't think of one disc that has failed on subsequent listens, and I must have a couple of hundred of them by now. Obviously time will tell to see if they still play in another five years but theres no sign of degradation so far.

Bernhard Gunter wrote something more detailed in defence of CDR somewhere over at www.trenteoiseaux.com around the time he switched the label from standard CDs to recordables. His opinion is probably no more valid than mine, but I guess we all have our own experiences.

Here's a few CDR columns I did for Cadence--

http://www.ndorward.com/music/cdrs_dec02.htm
http://www.ndorward.com/music/cdrs_jan03.htm
http://www.ndorward.com/music/cdrs_apr04.htm

Re: the percentage of regular releases I heard that are worthwhile: in the more or less nonselective batches of stuff I get from Cadence, about 1/3rd is excellent, 1/3rd is OK but nothing special, 1/3rd is dreck. But mostly my hit rate is closer to 100% good stuff, simply because I try to only request review copies from magazines, labels & artists that I think I'll probably like. I probably miss some serendipitous finds that way but life's short....

I am not so sure how CDR's differ. They are home recorded as opposed to recorded in the plant? I am sure there is a significant difference, but I cannot detect the difference. Of course all the CDR's I have purchased have been improvised electro/acoustic music-I would have to hear two copies side by side to make a real judgement.

I find the CDR thing to be interesting. If it gets music out there that would otherwise be financially limited from doing so, then more power to the CDR. I assume this is true.

The issue isn't where they're recorded or even where they're burned, but the actual medium of storage--we're talking about the difference between writeable CDRs (they usually have a blue or green bottom side) & more durable CDs which have to be manufactured at a pressing plant (silver bottom). The former are much less durable & much more prone to errors.

Sure, over time, CDRs deteriorate, as Julien Ottavi reminds us in the eloquent notes to his wmo/r release, but so do human ears (and other human bits and pieces). Sounds like you've been unlucky Nate. I did do some field research into the subject a while back, after reading that a sudden shock could damage a CDR. I chose four or five of them and amused myself by frisbeeing them across the room, dropping them on the bathroom floor and finally chucking them out of the window to fall two storeys into the courtyard below. Apart from one juicy scratch, they all played perfectly. Of course my neighbours thought I was insane. They probably still do.

Yes - cdrs democratize the deal. Pressed cds require an outlay of 500-100 $U.S., and you generally need to print 500 copies (not always a bright idea for unpopular music and/or small apartments). This is good.

cdrs are also more prone to errors. it is true. Most cdr people, tho, are very willing to replace skippy discs, in my experience as a player and consumer of cdrs.

Not much else to add to this discussion, but I should note that in the past year of running Fargone and Trash Aesthetic, doing at least 20 releases of 50-100 copies each in addition to TAR, I've only had 1 request to replace an unplayable CD (which I did, of course). I don't think CDR problems are as prominent as people were suggesting here; the only problems I've ever had personally have been with spraypainted CDRs, and those I got replaced also.

Ed, I think it's more about deterioration over time than immediate problems. I was pretty damn irritated to find the other day that my solo Giuseppe Ielasi CD-R on Absurd won't play any more, at least on the player I tried it on. CD-Rs are probably more reliable now than they were then, though.

zimdhumn!

If a cd-r has trouble playing in a specific player, try ripping it on your computer - most error correcting rippers can read most discs. Almost always worth backing up a cdr anyway and you can of course rip it and reburn it at full quality.

actually, it was iTunes that was having problems ripping it, it got stuck at the same point four times in a row.

Yikes Jon, ya got me all panicked up there man! Time to go and play some of my "old" Absurds! But i'll say right away that if ever any of you out there have problems playing any CDR that I've appeared on (VW with Nikos Veliotis, I Am Not Sitting In A Room With Reynols, both on Absurd, or the latest Walk Through V / Walk Through R on Why Not) send the faulty article to me & I will be more than happy to burn you another copy. Of course, the forthcoming "Conspiracy Theory" with Tomas Korber on L'innomable will be faultless to start with, heh heh.

What a wonderfully thoughtful idea!

Well, I said one copy not five!

Hey Dan, what if we, um, just lost one?

Walter--Dan was referring to the fivefold reposting of the "What a thoughtful idea" post--I went into the site & deleted the four dupes.