The Vandermark 5 and Atomic, two of the hardest touring band in 'free jazz', hit the Twin Cities Monday for a one night stand at the 7th Street Entry. As the stunted step-child of First Avenue (the old stomping grounds of Minneapolis mainstays Prince, Hüsker Dü and The Replacements), the venue offers surroundings that are basically antithetical to acoustic jazz, shaped as it is like a dank oblong fallout shelter with cramped stage and the lingering odors of countless smoked cigarettes soaked in a mire of spilled cheap beer and booze. Adding insult to possible injury, Juliana Hatfield was playing the Ave next door and her cranked amps funneled a near constant barrage of muddied noise through the walls that combined with various ceiling fans to undermine the bands’ quieter moments. Vandermark took the minuses of the environs in stride, setting up an impressive merch table at the bar and taking time out to amiably scarf down a sandwich before Atomic took the stage.
Appearance-wise Atomic reminds me amusingly of the cast to the BBC’s The Office pallid and proportioned as if they’ve spent too much time under cubicle fluorescents. Their fashion sense is also decidedly Northern European (pianist Håvard Wiik was wearing the same 70s-style blue and white zip-up tube sweater I saw him sporting at ACME in Athens). Bassist Ingebrigt Håker Flaten and trumpeter Magnus Broo may be vertically challenged, but both men compensate for their small statures with obvious élan for their art. Powerhouse drummer Paal Nilssen-Love and lanky reed man Fredrik Ljungkvist completed the bill. Wiik played Fender Rhodes in place of his usual acoustic ivories and the switch added a very cool retro element to the ensemble. Their six-tune set got a late start, but was largely worth the delay. The V5 followed and a third set combining the talent pools of both bands constituted the slated finale.
Wiik’s lounge-laced electric keys set up the unnamed opener as Ljungkvist and Broo negotiated the twisty head over a robustly grooving bass vamp. Both horns sounded a bit stiff and reticent in their solos, but Broo eventually broke out in a spate of high piercing trills that loosened the mood up. Flaten kicked off “Everyone’s Dancing Samba to Silent Music,” the second number, with an ill-advised solo intro that combined Jimmy Garrison-like flamenco strums and stops in an exposition whose clarity was diminished by extraneous sonic flak. Lungvist’s entrance on licorice stick faced similar steep incline, but gained ground and speed with time concluding in a focused flurry of overblown whistles. Wiik closed shop with a ping pong match enacted on his keys, bouncing chords back and forth before returning reluctantly to the tune’s melody.
“The Evasive Magnet” came next with tenor and trumpet engaging unaccompanied in a loquacious chamber duet. The braiding lines hardened into a circus-sounding rondo broken by free form interludes that gathered volume and force. Ljungkvist engaged in some crowd-pleasing overblowing and the sheer numbers of calories expended through his horn made the return to the theme seem inevitably anticlimactic. “Really” worked from a jaunty up-tempo beat and walking bass line. Wiik, Ljungkvist on clarinet and Broo traded quick nimble choruses for the majority of the number before turning on full throttle for the finish in an effort to beat back the Hatfield beast snapping at their heels. “Longing For Martin” a lush and languorous ballad feature for Ljungkvist’s Turrentine-toned tenor and Nilssen-Love’s surprisingly sedate brushes set a deceptive stage for a burning romp through the band’s signature tune “Boom Boom.” Wringing every modicum of groove out of the vamp-driven piece Ljungkvist turned pugilistic, trading punching notes with swinging legato roundhouses, sounding all the while like a bar-stomping amalgam of Big Jay McNeely and Illinois Jacquet. It was an astutely chosen finish and one that left the audience properly primed for more.
Vandermark and company assumed the stage to the applause of a well-oiled crowd thanks to their colleagues. His dry off-the-cuff wit threaded through the between-tune banter augmenting the band’s working class hipster credibility. The set was a curious departure from of the schematic of band’s new album Elements of Style... Exercises in Surprise, with the leader quietly wresting first solo honors form second saxophonist Dave Rempis on the majority of pieces. “Confluence,” with Vandermark on weighty baritone and Rempis on alto, served as inaugural salvo. As with Atomic this first entry felt a bit forced. A raucous freak-out preface sidled into a showcase for Vandermark with Rempis stepping back after the statement of the head. Bassist Kent Kessler found himself saddled with an unusually diminished positioning in the mix and the piece concluded as a duet between the leader and Daisy, the latter seeming a bit rickety behind his kit.
“Suitcase” signaled another switch in instruments, Vandermark opting for bass clarinet, but Rempis holding fast on alto. Dolphy’s spirit hung particularly heavy on each with lots of register leaping and oddly voiced intervals. Daisy’s lock-step rhythms felt incongruous and it took an adroitly muted solo from Bishop to right the tune’s trajectory in a barrage of tailgating tonal growls and smears. “Knock Yourself Out,” a funky vamp-fueled tune and the only representative from the new record, received a rough hewn reading with Rempis ripping things up on tenor. Vandermark’s baritone played the requisite riffing role, but broke ranks for an unexpected solo of his own following another brilliant turn by Bishop that traded in blustery elongated slurs. “Camera” came across as an archetypal jam-packed Vandermark piece. Repeating Flaten’s mistake Kessler attempted a bass preamble, but the various crowd conversations and undiminished clatter from the gig next door conspired aggressively against him. Vandermark’s clarinet sought a similar coup against the din and came up with mixed results. But the biggest casualty was Daisy who found himself relegated to a metronomic cymbal crash on mallets and stop gap beats that quickly began to grate the ears. Even a closing segment that turned up the heat with Rempis alto riding out a strong rhythmic push by bass and drums couldn’t completely rescue the piece.
The band recouped their compromised center on “Vehicle” returning to a winsome reed combination of tenor and baritone. Daisy again supplied a supple backbeat and Kessler thrummed out one of his signature ostinatos dancing a lively jig as his fingers pummeled his strings. Vandermark’s solo was marred a shade by ill-fitting harmonies from Bishop and Rempis, but both of the latter horns book-ended the leader’s efforts with rousing improvisations. Rempis in particular was on fire, raging through a rapacious clutch of choruses in what was probably his most incendiary statement of the evening. The set closed with “Cruise Campo” another up-tempo cooker this time pairing alto with clarinet and muted trombone atop the snapping bass strings of Kessler and the counted beats of Daisy.
I had to cut out before the third set and can’t comment on the action therein. But in witnessing both bands seperately I left The Entry with a heightened appreciation for each, something I wasn’t sure was possible prior. Both sets had their share of blemishes and foibles and the differences between the two bands are pronounced. Atomic has a strong sense of joviality to their approach music coupled with laidback informality. It’s obvious that they’re having a great time on stage and infectious as a result. The V5 feels more self-consciously like a serious work-ethic-driven band. Tight and well-toned from innumerable distances traveled on dozens of tours. Confident, capable and highly talented, but also occasionally a bit too humorless and sternly-countenanced for their own good. Vandermark’s compositions often carry this patina too with great attention paid toward bucking conventions, but a guiding emphasis still placed on honoring existing traditions in the bargain. It can be a difficult tightrope to tread at times, but the results carry a strong jolt of surprising invention that makes jazz so fascinating to begin with. Hearing these two bands juxtaposed on the same ticket is a thoroughly entertaining experience and one I can easily recommend to anyone with the least bit of affinity for creative improvised music.
I enoyed reading your comments, Derek and not in small measure because you nicely put in words how I feel about the V5 (the good and the bad). I'm yet to see Atomic live, hoping to see them in two weeks' time in Kongsberg, but looks like it might be a more uplifting event. Relating to your final comments, so long as they play within reasonable traveling distance, I would always go to see either band play live.
Looking forward ot your next one, or were you the one who was working on the ACME review?
Posted by: gnhrtg at June 18, 2004 2:09 AMThanks, Gökhan, I appreciate the positive feedback. I debated whether to run the write-up as a blog entry or feature and decided on the former placement because it could still use a few vigorous scrubs with the ol’ editorial Brillo™ pad. I do think Ken takes his share of unfair punches when it comes to his musicianship/motives. Rempis may be the better reed player from a technical standpoint, but Ken’s passion & sense of purpose is no joke either. Please post your impressions of Atomic (here or at JC) after you see them. I’d love to read your reactions & see if you agree about the differences in temperament/style I described.
I am still working on an ACME piece & a bit disappointed in myself as a consequence. So far Erik Hinds, one of the festival organizers, has graciously refrained from reminding me about it. But I know I’m swiftly falling from Jon Morgan’s (of Meniscus Records) good graces :) He took about 70 digital photos & I’ve been trying to winnow those down to a dozen or so. And translating about 40 pages of chicken-scratch notes has been an unexpected chore also. The article will likely run @ Dusted Magazine in the next month or so & I’m hoping to post a blurb here too.
Choice lines, when put in the reverse order from which they appear, make for a dim view of all involved.
But it sounds like someone is making money, and so it goes.
+ + +
"A thoroughly entertaining experience and one I can easily recommend to anyone with the least bit of affinity for creative improvised music:
a funky vamp-fueled tune and the only representative from the new record
banter augmenting the band’s working class hipster credibility
Wringing every modicum of groove out of the vamp-driven piece
Ljungkvist engaged in some crowd-pleasing overblowing
the switch added a very cool retro element to the ensemble
Their fashion sense is also decidedly Northern European
the venue offers surroundings that are basically antithetical to acoustic jazz, shaped as it is like a dank oblong fallout shelter with cramped stage and the lingering odors of countless smoked cigarettes soaked in a mire of spilled cheap beer and booze
Posted by: Fun at June 18, 2004 8:41 AMFun, I’m not sure I follow. A “dim view” of me or of the V5 & Atomic or who? I dig both bands quite a bit, but not unequivocally. All but the last of the lines you cite I would consider complimentary of their efforts, whatever order they appear in.
Posted by: derek at June 18, 2004 9:57 AM"Funky vamp filled tunes, hipster credibility, more vamp driven grooves, "crowd pleasing" overblowing, cool retro elements, northern european fashion sense, all presented in a dank oblong fallout shelter with a cramped stage and the lingering oders of countless smoked cigarettes soaked in a mire of spilled cheap beer and booze (for starters.)"
Sounds pretty dismal to me.
Are we "cool" with this as the state of contemporary improvised music?
It's always depressing when the artist (who should know better) chooses to show their work in such conditions.
Could the pay have been *that* good?
Was it good enough to reinforce age old canards regarding the social/musical/economic status of improvised music?
Would the Julliard String Quartet play under such conditions? (Would an article on their music/performance include what the concert hall smelled like or their "cred" among "the hipsters?") [No.] Yet somehow it's ok for the *improvising* MacArthur grant alumni to battle against "Juliana Hatfield...playing the Ave next door...her cranked amps funneled a near constant barrage of muddied noise through the walls...combined with various ceiling fans to undermine the bands’ quieter moments"
Sounds simply punative. It's doubly depressing when one considers participation in that schema is (ultimately) voluntary.
Posted by: fun at June 18, 2004 2:36 PM“Sounds pretty dismal to me.”
Diff’rent strokes, Fun. But it sounds to me like maybe you should pick a different handle ;)
As far as my ‘article’ mentioning the particulars of the venue- it’s an informal blog entry & I was attempting to set the stage (albeit rather heavy-handedly :). Also, elements of the venue affected my perceptions of the performance- as such they seemed worth mentioning.
Regarding the bands’ decision to play there, I really don’t see it as evidence of their diminished credibility/compromised artistry at all. I spoke to Rempis before the show & he told me that their booking agent (“a guy who books a lot of rock shows”) scheduled the gig. Were they pleased with the result? Were they okay with having to battle it out with Hatfield to be heard? From what I gather they weren’t, but I think they were happy to be playing in front of a modest crowd of appreciative fans (their first time in the Twin Cities with the current line up, and the first time in 7 years for Vandermark & Kessler).
What you seem to be implying is that the bands should’ve forgone the gig on the basis of some set of lofty *artistic principles*. No offense intended, but I think that’s a bunch of bunk. Would the Julliard String Quartet ever play the 7th Street Entry? No way. Would they ever ‘compromise their artistic principles’ enough to charge an $8 cover & travel from city-to-city in a rented mini-van? I doubt it. The larger point (which I realize you’re making) is that they don’t have to. I agree that the absence of equity in the arts is often an unfortunate state of affairs, but ultimately what’s the point of simply grousing about it unless you're just blowing of steam? To the best of my knowledge, these bands aren’t in it for the money or global recognition anyway, nor are they slogging it out on the road in the hopes of attaining membership into some elite contemporary improvised music circle.
Shifting gears a bit, what’s your personal opinion of the music of the V5 and/or Atomic?
Playing in toilets like 7th Street Entry is the nature of the beast. The last time I saw Steve Lacy it was in a real pit. I felt bad that somebody of his stature had to play in such a dump but what am I gonna do: Reduce the already small crowd size to make a point that would be lost on everybody?? Some artists like Tim Berne reportedly prefer to play in dumps.
I will go see these groups tonight at a club nicer than 7th Street Entry (but one into which the amplified noise from an adjoining performance has bled in the past); hopefully it will start on time and I will be able to catch the final set. Derek's review is pretty reflective of my memories of past V5 performances, which I've seen on every tour since Target or Flag.
Posted by: Captain Hate at June 20, 2004 6:49 AMI'm guessing that if Vandermark turned down all the "sub-standard" gigs, he would perform in public only slightly more often than Ornette Coleman.
Posted by: mwanji at June 21, 2004 5:37 AMOn the Saturday of the ACME festival, there was an outdoor fraternity party across the street from the venue, blasting Southern Rock at a volume that seemed vindictive (this is the University of Georgia, after all). I'm a big fan of Vandermark's work, and I actually remember feeling somewhat personally embarassed for the guys. But during a quieter moment of one of the performances (I think it was Free Fall) Ingebrit Haker-Flaten (bassist for Atomic) began soloing along with the music coming through the walls, with a straight face, even. It was a funny moment (it cracked up Ken Vandermark) and it made me admire their concentration and ability to ignore it, more than anything. But as a fan of string quartet music, rock music (I was in the ACME venue the night before to see Melt-Banana and Fantomas), as well as jazz, Vandermark & Co's willingness to play these venues, with such positivity, and no snobbery about it, is quite refreshing, I think.
Posted by: mc at June 21, 2004 7:29 AMI certainly can't improved on Derek's commentary but I can point out some things that differed between that show and the one last night. First of all the V5 played first and the playlist seems to have been way different than in Minneapolis. They got started with Archie Shepp's "Wherever June Bugs Go" with KV on baritone and Rempis (who looks like he came from a makeover at "Amish Eye for the Sax Guy")on tenor. After that they played all new songs but I don't recall any of the titles being listed above. One was called (I think) Burned Nostalgia and featured Rempis on a blistering alto solo. There was one that was dedicated to Otis Redding and all were well done. Daisy has caught some heat from people claiming he's more a rock drummer than a jazz stylist, which I think is a fair statement. The songs that they're coming up with obviously have his input in mind because he's always in the back clattering away as the rest of the band plays their, yes, groove oriented music.
Atomic was wonderful. I thought it was just the club not having an accoustic piano but Wiik played the Fender Rhodes here too; I REALLY would've liked to have heard him on a grand, dammit. But he seemed pretty much at ease on the Fender. The playlist was similar (The Evasive Magnet and Boom Boom) but there were differences as well. Broo was really smoking; what the hell, everybody was hot. The crowd gave them a very enthusiastic response.
The third set was kind of a letdown; it was only Kessler, Wiik and Rempis playing not really songs per se (at least they weren't identified as such) but more like motifs that they had agreed on previously. With the instrumentation, it was obviously much more understated than either of the full groups. It was nice but definitely the lesser of the three performances.
Posted by: Captain Hate at June 21, 2004 3:59 PMmc, I echo your sentiments one hundred percent. That frat party was straight out of Animal House, though they had nothing of the Delta's plebeian charm.
Cap’n, thanks for the reportage on last night’s show. Very interesting to read about the differences & gratifying to hear that Broo was in good form. I’ve read some negative impressions of him recently that really haven’t fit my perception of his playing. And I love that description of Rempis. From what I gather- & Prof Blivins can probably confirm this- he used to sport long stringy rocker hair. I think the switch to Amish appearance suits him; he’s got one of the most meticulously groomed beards in recent memory.
You readers probably already know this, but there is a very well-written review of the ACME fest in the most recent issue of Signal to Noise magazine. I should read it again before I say too much, but I thought it reflected my own experience there very well. One exception was the writer's reaction to the Maneri sets: I remember being utterly spellbound for both the trio and duo, while the writer seemed underwhelmed ("unrepresentative of their powers" I think he said), singling out Randy Peterson's drumming. It was my first live exposure to either Maneri, but I was transported, even so.
I'm going to see Atomic and the Vandermark 5 tomorrow night in Atlanta, and I might be able to post a mini-review.
Posted by: mc at June 22, 2004 8:13 AMHmm, ever since I've known Dave ('98 or '99) he's been pretty clean-cut. Maybe a little shaggier in the hair dept. but always a kempt beard.
FWIW, I've always enjoyed the V5 live. I think that, in addition to Ken's composing talents and the band's great playing, they have fab chemistry and are really tight. I really admire their willingness to play rock clubs and similar venues, something I certainly also do a lot with the UE. You gig where you can, after all. Jammin' econo, just like the Minutemen.
Posted by: Jason at June 22, 2004 8:29 PMwow, that's the second time I've seen the word "kempt" in an hour, I never remember seeing it before that.
Posted by: Jon Abbey at June 22, 2004 8:58 PMCan't find it in my dictionary either Jon (maybe Nate can enlighten us), but if it exists, it's probably the right word to describe the V5, who I find increasingly uninteresting with every subsequent appearance - on disc, as I haven't seen them live & missed the opportunity to do so recently. Between KV & Wynton Marsalis I honestly can't see much of a difference any more.
(Maybe THAT'll elicit a response)
Captain - Thanks for sharing some impressions.
Mr. Warburton - What kind of response did you have in mind? Perhaps one along the lines of "Sure, overdo it all you want, we're too thick to get the point otherwise." Seriously, though, what is the axis along which you compare those two and see them as similar - being overhyped, suffering from overexposure, not "maturing"?
Re-Daisy - is it not noteworthy that his contributions in other small ensembles, for instance, Scott Rosenberg's "Owe" and Triage, are much more positive or at least do not detract from the music as much. In any case, I wonder whether there are no other percussionists/drummers available.
Posted by: gnhrtg at June 23, 2004 1:28 AMFrom: http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/k/k0033300.html
kempt
adj.
Tidy; trim: a nicely kempt beard.
JB, glad to stand corrected. I could’ve swore reading about one of the V5ers (thought it was Rempis) who used to have the longhair rocker look… maybe Bishop then? He did used to sling a mean axe after all.
Dan, I think I get your point, but it still seems like some pretty smelly bait. There’s the semblance of Wynton’s insular attitude in some of Ken’s projects, but overall I think he’s done some very positive things with his clout & cash. And even if we probably won’t be seeing any collaborations w/ William Parker, Keith Rowe or even the AACM maybe that’s a good thing? I think he’s reached out more than most.
Relatedly, I was hanging briefly near the merch table at the show last Monday, waiting for the barkeep to crack a frosty cold Red Hook, and overheard Ken rapping with an excited Japanese fan. The fan rattled off a quick list of folks, wondering if Ken had ever played any of them. He name-dropped Fred Anderson. “Yes”. Then the Art Ensemble of Chicago. “No, I’ve never played with those guys.” Kinda surprised me.
Dictionary, thanks for concise definition. I’ve rarely encountered the descriptor “kempt” with out a “un” prefix attached so it’s nice to see it used in its more clean-cut form ;)
From what I've heard, there is still a pretty sizable divide between South Side and North Side players in Chicago (and the back story is, I think, that a lot of the older AACM players aren't too happy - still - that Ken got the MacArthur award).
I haven't actually seen the V5 in a few years, and my opinion of their last few albums (haven't heard the new one) isn't too far off from Dan's, but they can be quite good live. And I don't have a problem with Tim Daisy's playing.
Posted by: Jason at June 23, 2004 7:12 AMI went to see them live a few years back at Tonic with a jazz writer friend of mine, and we walked out halfway through (this was when I was listening much more to this area of music). his comment was "it's not any better to rip off Dolphy for all of your tunes than it is to rip off Miles' second quartet", obviously referring to Wynton and that wave of neotraditionalists.
so maybe that's along similar lines to what Dan means, dunno...
Posted by: Jon Abbey at June 23, 2004 7:31 AMOED labels "kempt" "Now arch." but I guess it's making a comeback. The definition is what you'd expect: "Of hair or wool: Combed."
A pity that my press pass for the Toronto jazzfest (coming up this Friday) doesn't include the gala Wynton Marsalis/Stacy Kent concert: I will be seeing the KVDM5 at the fest, & it would have been nice to be able to compare the two.
Dues-paying to Dolphy is fine by me, but I'd rather hear someone other than KVDM do it.
Posted by: N.D. at June 23, 2004 7:50 AMI'm chalant about kemptitude.
Posted by: walto at June 23, 2004 8:03 AMAlso plussed.
Posted by: walto at June 23, 2004 8:04 AM“A pity that my press pass for the Toronto Jazzfest doesn’t include the gala Wynton Marsalis/Stacy Kent concert”
Thems the breaks for stooping to write for 'obscure' jazz mags instead of the ‘bona fide’ glossies. Who are you covering the Fest for?
Walt, you’re *chalant* about most things, a primary reason why you’re an indomitable asset to the Bags bullpen imho.
I'm amazed at how much judgment regarding mostly improvised music can still be made with reference to the source material, whatever it might be. I don't hear most of Vandermark's compositions for V5 to be remarkably similar to those of Dolphy - they might be, for all I know.
However, ripping off Miles, Dolpy, Mingus, or whoever for the source should not, in my opinion, be a basis for evaluating this kind of music. I listen for what they do with it, one of which might be arrangement, but much more importantly for me is the impovising, individual or collective, that goes on and whether it has any characteristic of its own - through *some* component of the music. Some might be rhythmical - both regarding the tune or the improvised phrases themselves, harmonic - as in substitutions, or simply the use of extended technique or timbre.
You can easily tell I'm not a writer on music, I know.
Posted by: gnhrtg at June 23, 2004 8:14 AMFor some observers, the following syllogism seems to be in effect: as Charles Lloyd was to the late 60's / early 70's, Ken Vandermark is to the late 90's / early 00's.
I just wish he would let his music speak for itself and not attach a "shout-out" to every... last... composition...
In the current final analysis, I like KV much better as a collaborator / instigator rather than as a band-leader.
Posted by: Joe Milazzo at June 23, 2004 8:34 AMAfter witnessing more than 15 performances of KV during last couple of years (he has a close friendship with one of the main jazz concert organizer in Slovenia) in different line ups (as a leader & sideman in V5, in DKV, Spaceways Inc., Brotzmann Chicago Tentet, School Days, etc ...) it's interesting that i came to similar thoughts as Dan. The difference is i think that Ken is not so much of a spokesman and a guy in front by choice but the hardworking man of action, willing to invest everything in his passion. That also doesn't mean that Wynton probably doesn't, but he still has a corporate support of big companies and institutions behind him. V5 is in my view sort of more conservative take on free jazz (especially in the period of last couple of years) and KV's compositions to me are lacking passion that KV is displaying in other lineups and collaborations (and to tell you the thruth some to me sound pretty awkward with lack of focus in bringing certain elements of reach traditions of improvisation togheter in one ''composed'' piece of music). At the end KV is certanly as much in the same role as ''neotraditionalist'' Marsalis but from the point of bringing us the fire in jazz from sixties. But the question if he is also partly the one to blame for too much of free jazz wank in this days still remains unsolved ...
Posted by: lukaz at June 23, 2004 11:48 AMFWIW, I think I like KV best with my namesake, Weasel Walter.
Posted by: walto at June 23, 2004 2:11 PMIt's for Cadence. I'd first approached Coda but I gather they're scaling back their festival coverage. I'd tossed in the request for the Marsalis ticket as a longshot, but didn't seriously expect to get it. Since I refuse to actually pay $40 to see His Wyntonness, I thought it worth a shot--Know Thy Enemy & all that.
Vandermark's all right. I just don't like listening to music that's "all right".
Posted by: N.D. at June 23, 2004 2:54 PMFirst of all I have to defend my friend Professor Bivens against all you Shawn Unkempts; he, as did I, grew up in the DC area at a time when there was still some regard for being well-spoken (it was a long time ago). Listing a word as archaic means that the general population has an insufficiently sized vocabulary to include it.
Second, I know that there's no need to defend one's likes or dislikes but I'm somewhat surprised to see the V5 regarded as the Steve Miller Band of free jazz. I enjoy their live performances a great deal and have gone to see them many more times than I would, say, Matthew Shipp (of course it helps that Vandermark's various groups regularly play here in this sub-backwater of improvised music where I reside). I agree that their studio recordings, at least through Airports for Light, have been increasingly lackluster or predictable; but I still purchase them at concerts, if for no other reason than to get the bonus live disc.
I have gotten completely tired of hearing that MacArthur award story (has it been ten years now?) which, until anybody can give me hard evidence to the contrary, is just a petty case of spite, jealousy and envy. At least Vandermark puts the money to good use; I don't see anybody else breaking down the doors to record a disc of Joe Harriott songs.
For those of you who don't know me, I'm NOT Stu Vandermark.
Posted by: Captain Hate at June 23, 2004 6:11 PMKV does take a lot of hits, doesn't he, Cap? I think he's a solid saxophonist who's very industrious (and also happens to have a very cool dad). And you're right: the McArthur thing has definitely caused people to question him more closely too. You wonder if it was worth the bucks to take all this criticism (...yeah, but really, do I have to?).
OTOH, when I caught the Brotz 10tet in Boston a few years back, I was a bit struck how lackluster Vandermark's solos were compared to Gustaffson's, (but, of course, who'd want to follow Gustaffson?)
Posted by: walto at June 23, 2004 8:34 PMWell, I got the response. Few points there:
1)thanks for "kempt" - about time I bought a proper dictionary here, he said chalantly. Does "whelmed" exist? (Seems "underwhelmed" now does). If so, I've always been pretty whelmed :) by Ken, but never really overwhelmed.
2) I don't give a fuck about the Big Mac prize story (though I do remember Stanley Zappa wailing about it in an epic rant in Bananafish, saying it should have gone to Bill Dixon hahahaha) - don't recall anyone bitching when Ornette netted a $100,000 prize for being, um, Ornette - but there's something I find depressingly atrophying about calling an album "Free Jazz Classics".
3) I agree 100% with the comments of Jon's friend above.
4) KV played with Weasel? Which album Walt? Must date from a while back cuz I can't see it happening today. Send details!
5) Baggy welcomes to Luka Z from Slovenia - anyone who names a label after a Samuel Beckett novel is OK by me.
6) The Brotzmann tentet.. hmm.. never got off on that. I do like the odd wild free jazz blow out as well as the next man (gimme Doyle / Glover / Graves Bäbi anytime), I thought the B10 was pretty ridiculous live, with Mars, Mats, Ken all trying to outdo each other (I think I compared them to dogs pissing on a tree) before The Mighty Brotz blew them ALL away with one of those blood vessel bursting screams. It was a bit like professional boxing. The only gravitas and subtlety of the evening came from Joe McPhee.
7) No, respect due to Ken Vandermark for his work in numerous groups and the energy he puts into what he does - my original point above was designed not so much as a put-down of KV but rather as a "pull-up" of Wynton, who, despite saying and writing some dumb things, can still play the ass off the trumpet.
yeah, nice to see luka here, keep posting! (I know I owe you a e-mail)
Posted by: Jon Abbey at June 23, 2004 10:07 PMYep, "whelm" exists! Indeed it gets almost 2 full columns in the OED. Keats used it: "In my grave, / Or side by side with whelmed mariners."
I don't disagree with the sentiment of Free Jazz Classics but the boring earnestness of the title is a bad sign, isn't it?
Ken Vandermark & his MacArthur, Christian Bok & his Griffin.....
Posted by: N.D. at June 23, 2004 11:24 PMYes, that negative review of Tentet's performance in Banlieues Bleues. As much as I would like to offer counter impressions, I can't, not having seen that particular concert. Though when I very recently saw them, without Gustafsson (absent for some unannounced reason and much to my dismay) or Williams (who has left for good), I found Ken to be much less, though still, "a fish out of water."
As far as I know, Ken has used the proceedings from the award to finance, wholly or in part, tours of the Brotzmann Tentet and the Territory Band, neither of whose output I would want to be without.
For those who are looking to sustain their favorable impression of Vandermark, as collaborator, yes - "Nuclear Assembly Hall" where he does not get any more solo space than others, if anything it's less, and it's nice to hear him as another color in the mix. It is, isn't it?
I think I can just add two more, tangentially related things: First, Gustafsson is the man. Second, Dan - perhaps better to have mailed you, or SNT, about this but it might be appropriate here since you mention Wynton Marsalis. In one of your reviews, of possibly a James Carter release, you mention how you were somewhat surprised by Cecil Taylor's unending praise for him, especially, as he (Taylor) had come down rather harshly on Marsalis for his lack of technique in that same interview. In case you haven't noticed it or no one has told you this since, Taylor had criticized Hargrove, not Marsalis (your point might still stand as valid, though)
I love your dog peeing analogy, Dan. When I caught them, I reported that there was an awful lot of testosterone on display on stage. A bit annoying, I thought. Except for maybe one tune, I didn't care for them too much either, FWIW. The crowd was absolutely wild, OTOH--especially the geelz.
KV's on a Flying Luttenbacher disc, I believe. Can't remember the title.
the Brotzmann 10tet show I saw in Victoriaville a while back in the early days of the group was awesome (the Stone/Water CD is a section of this show, although I've never heard the CD), although most of that was Drake, Kondo and Gustafsson. Vandermark didn't add anything to the night for me.
Posted by: Jon Abbey at June 24, 2004 4:55 AMI have this record from atavistic from 1997
its called NRG Ensemble, untitled 'bejazzo gets a facelift'
apparently lead by saxophonist mars williams
with KV as well, kessler on bass, sandstrom on bass and steve hunt on drums
somehow i like this record, better than V5 i listened to.
very quite groovy stuff, but full ot testosterone as well i feel, :)
Fwiw, I *hate* the Steve Miller Band. The consequence of 10³ listens of their ‘greatest hits’ tape (the one with the airbrushed chess piece cover) in college- ugh! Though the early MTV-era video for “Abracadabra” is still kinda neat in a Steve Martin kinda way.
Stu Vandermark on the other hand is the BOMB! That dude is one of the downhome coolest that I’ve ever had the pleasure of meeting. Opinionated as all hell, but able to back his shit up in a clinch- sort of like Walto if Walto was from Bean Town (hey wait, Walto, you are from Bean Town, right?) Stu's supposed to have a book on the history of the Boston jazz scene published soon (quote excerpts available over at KV’s site, including a funny one from Joe Maneri dreaming about Benny Goodman).
And letting my fingers do the walking, a quick jaunt to AMG reveals that KV and WW shared the mics on the Luttenbachers CONSTRUCTIVE DESTRUCTION (UG Explode) from 94’.
Another quick jaunt reveals that KV and WW shared their mics also on two 7''eps ''546 Seconds of Noise'' and ''1389 Seconds of Noise '' from 1992. You can hear KV as a Luttenbacher also on their 1995-1996 classic ''Destroy All Music''and a compilation of older material called ''Retrospektiv III''.
And as for ''i can't see it happening today'' i guess that this stands for almost every musician who was ever in different combos of Flying Luttenbachers with manic ''genius'' WW ...
more info on Weasel's properly named website:
http://nowave.pair.com/weasel_walter/
all best
Posted by: lukaz at June 24, 2004 6:23 AM>there's something I find depressingly atrophying about calling an album "Free Jazz Classics"
I believe the title was intended to be humorous...like when Throbbing Gristle called one of their albums 20 Jazz Funk Greats.
Posted by: phil at June 24, 2004 7:02 AMwhat do you guys think of vandermark's territory band 2 (atlas) album? i like it quite a bit...
Posted by: tomas at June 24, 2004 7:34 AMI like it too, Tomas; so much that I'm willing to overlook that unusual Vandermark rant in the liners against critics (not that *some* couldn't use some cuffing around) and that obnoxiously loud buzzing sound that interrupts Jim Baker's piano at the end of a cut (Neiger I think). Other than that I think it's a very pleasing disc.
Posted by: Captain Hate at June 24, 2004 4:15 PMI think Territory Band is one of Ken's more interesting projects - both one and two I liked and I hear three is going to be good too. I left the V5 show early the other night. All I can say is, Atomic would be a tough act to follow every night. I think Ken has some great ideas, but perhaps gets involved in too many projects. FME is by far one of his best in my opinions.
Posted by: Jon at June 24, 2004 5:56 PMI think Territory Band is one of Ken's more interesting projects - both 1 and 2 I liked, and I hear 3 is going to be good too.
I left the V5 show early the other night. All I can say is, Atomic would be a tough act to follow every night.
Anyone like the new FME disc?
Gnhrtg ("I had the same horse when I had my eyes examined" - Groucho) - thanks for reminding me of this, but I can't for the life of me find a copy of the review of mine you're referring to! (So much for my "filing system".) If you can, let me know. Maybe I should spend some time spring cleaning my own site. As I recall, CT's enthusing about JC was in his Signal To Noise interview, but which Carter thing was I reviewing?
Elsewhere.. "You can hear KV as a Luttenbacher also on their 1995-1996 classic ''Destroy All Music'" Oh yes how silly of me. I have this somewhere too. Can't seem to find many occasions to blast the Luttenbachers round these parts.. (My favourite is "Trauma" but this is taking us completely off the subject). As to Phil's thing on "Free Jazz Classics" being tongue-in-cheek, can anyone confirm that? It does sound like typical record label hype/wank, to be sure. In any case, who the hell am I to carp, having named an album (and a band) "Return Of The New Thing"? (Though that was deliberate provocation on my part). Back to KV - I love the first Tripleplay album on Boxholder. Just thought I'd add that.
I find it hard to imagine it was tongue-in-cheek, actually. To give you an idea, here's a sentence from the self-penned liner notes to KVDM's new Free Fall disc: "Any listener with a solid knowledge of jazz history will realize that inspiration for the name of this group was taken from the brilliant album Free Fall by the Jimmy Giuffre Trio." I revere Giuffre, but the lecturer-with-chalkboard tone of that makes me gag.
Posted by: N.D. at June 25, 2004 8:24 AMCurious about the acronym KVDM, why not just shorten it to KV and save two consonants?
I agree that KV can sometimes be painfully pedantic (a tone I don’t find nearly as often in the words of John Corbett, his partner-in-crime), but again I think it’s more a function of his earnestness than any attempt to sound ‘academic’ or highbrow. What I find ironic is his effort to verbally distance Free Fall’s music from that of the Giuffre 3. Don’t have the notes in front of me, but doesn’t he basically say his band’s music is a completely separate entity & free from any direct influence? I may have a faulty set of ears, but I’m hearing the Giuffre stamp all over that disc.
It's the pontificating, eat-your-Wheaties tone of the sentence I was complaining about, really.
"KV" is just two letters: "KVDM" boils down his name to its essence, its spiritual core if you will.
Posted by: N.D. at June 25, 2004 9:04 AMI've heard the new FME disc and I love it. Sounds much better to me than the 'Live at Glenn Miller Cafe' cd. Which is kind of strange because I'm usually a much bigger fan of Vandermark live stuff than his studio albums.
Posted by: Nick at June 26, 2004 10:10 PMI only have 3 things to say on this topic:
1. Two words: "Kenny V."
2. "I'd rather be listening to Elliott Carter's Double Concerto for Harpsichord and Piano".
3. Playing with Mr. Vandermark in the Flying Luttenbachers happened a lifetime ago and a world away, as far as I'm concerned (I think the same thing about playing with Hal Russell, as well). We were in a band together for a few years because, frankly, it didn't seem like there was anybody else to play with at the time (pre-post-rock/empty-bottle-new-music mafia era). I don't think either us highly values the music we made together at that time -- it's sort of like "listen to the band were were in together in high school" and both of us eventually embarked on highly divergent courses of our own. I've made plenty of snarky comments on this topic all over the place in the past, but I just don't care anymore. It's totally irrelevant to my present or future! Ken is a "nice guy" and a "hard worker" and he doesn't need my criticism any more than I want or need his.
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BTW - I really have had almost nothing to do with improvised music (listening or playing) in years now. It just all turned really sour for me over the course of the '90s: the scene politics, the predictible or boring, effete noodling, the weird trendy chicago audiences, etcetera, ad nauseam.
Yesterday I bought a vinyl copy of "Company 1" because the price was right and I was feeling frisky. I threw it on today and suddenly was reminded of why I cared about improvised music in the first place. The velocity, focus and iconoclasm were all there, in abundance.
I haven't heard much contemporary improvised music in the last 10 years that has done it for me, but it's good to know I'm not just tired of the format - just the current progenitors, I think.
Is it me, or did the archetypes of the idiom really have something tangible that the current players don't? I don't think it's just me, but if someone can give me a good argument why it might be, I'd like to hear it.
ww
Posted by: Weasel Walter at August 11, 2004 10:30 PM.................................................. © 2003 - 2006 bagatellen ..................................................